Joel Thompson
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I think $400 plus tip is about the max I will pay (and to be perfectly honest, the tip part galls my a!!). I have yet to get a tip for doing my job. I would be real interested in seeing how much the guide actually makes and how much is taken by the “outfitter”.
I’ve had some very good guides out west, but I have sworn off float trips. All the float guides I’ve had seem to want to either troll flies or throw streamers. If I fish for trout, I want to fish dry flies, so I would rather go on a wade trip.
All I really want is for the guide to be pleasant and professional, show me where the fish are likely to be and advise me on flies and technique. Beyond that, I don’t think the guide is responsible for catching the fish. I also prefer using my own equipment, but the guide should supply the appropriate flies.
Gratuity is a tough one for all parties involved Bob. Unfortunately it has become an expected part of the service industry in the United States. No going back now I am afraid. As far as how much a guide gets and what an outfitter takes I can only speak for myself. I try to “reward” my guides for marketing themselves. When they bring clients to me I keep 50 bucks and they get the rest. If I bring clients to them I keep a 100 bucks and they keep the rest. I am fairly sure my guides get paid more then most but I also feel that is why I have some of the best.
As for your take on float trips being a trolling experience or streamer chucking all day I would say the outfitter failed to do his or her job and see what you were looking for. The boat allows you to cover soooooo much more water then you could even imagine doing on foot. There are many people that I fish with that are exactly like you Bob and want that dry fly fun. We anchor up, maybe get out of the boat depending on the water we are fishing, and fish to head until it quiets down and then we move on until we see more heads coming up. This is a personal favorite of mine, but to be honest it does not always work with two anglers.
Thanks for all the input so far everyone. I love this kind of stuff as I figure it just helps me be better at what I do.
Joel
I felt like $400 was the going rate for a long time out west.
From talking to my friends out there, the guides aren’t making any more than they were in the early 2000’s, but the outfitters were the ones increasing and sucking up the extra money that went into justifying $460-500 a day due to rising gas costs back in 2005-2008
Adam one of the reasons that outfitters have had to increase their take is because of increase fees put on using water ways. For example, everytime I send a guide down the Blackfoot River I have to pay 3% of my gross to Fish Wildlife and Parks. I could go on a HUGE rant about this is something that really gets on my nerves but I won’t as that is not what this topic is about.
We (the outfitters) have also seen an increase in our liability insurance (which the bulk of the liability falls on the outfitter) do all of the marketing and advertising to get clients.
I am not saying that a guide does’t deserve a bump in pay every once in a while especially if they are loyal, work hard, have repeat clients, and stick around from year to year. But the fact is a lot of them do it for a few years and move on to something else. I also think you get what you pay for so it should be fair to everyone involved.
Joel
Thanks for the input Keith. I work very hard to higher guides that are friendly and very hard working. You may have to put up with a guy that thinks he is the funniest guy in the world (but isn’t) like are friend Zac here but the pay off is he will work very hard for you and you will have a lot of fun once you figure out his dumb sense of humor.
Great insight as always Neal! I charge $425 whether we stay out there 5 hours or 12 hours. I try to choose a float based on what the person looking for. Lunch can range from a peanut butter sandwich (very rare but is requested) to fresh cooked tenderlion with all the fixins. I try to get as much information as possible from my clients before we meet face to face so that I make sure they are getting their moneys worth.
Mike, I include all flies, tippet, leader, rods, etc. All people have to do is show up with a smile and a good attitude.
That sucks Dave. I have heard from friends of mine hear in Montana that use to live in PA that it is out of control there right now. One of my buddies told me just last week that his Dad sold his mineral/natural gas rights to some big company for a pile of cash. His dad wanted to retire and everyone around him was selling out so he figured he may as well jump on board.
My view (and I am sure you and I think a like hear) is that we need to do EVERYTHING we can to protect water and keep it as clean as possilbe. It is far to precious fo us not too.
Joel
Great report and pictures Tim! Good to see you and Simon finally hooked up for a little fish rage! I admit I am a little jealous as I would love to be at the Trout Cottage right about now. Guess I will just live through you guys! 😎
Joel
Looks like a great time and a great tradition as well Zach. I love the way that in every photo that the white dog is in he (or she) is hauling ass towards another bird! Good stuff right there!
Joel
Great report Eric! Looks like you and the boys had a great time! Bummer about the BWO’s not coming off. It really never happened on the MO this fall either. I guess that first hatch in the spring should be killer…No?
Joel
Craig even if it is just a small support on the back of the seat it can make a big difference on the back fatigue in my opinion. I spend a lot of 10+ hour days on the river and just that little bit can make a world of difference. I use to have a cooler as my seat and my back would be screaming by the end of a long day.
Joel
Thanks guys! Alan that is an awesome looking seat and exactly what I want! I would love to see a picture of how you clamp off the rope after it is strung up and tightened Alan if it is not too much hassle. It is blowing snow and cold here now so I am inspired to do some shop work! 🙂
Joel
Very nice boat indeed Michael! How do you like your rope seats? I was thinking about making some for my boat this winter and my biggest fear is getting the rope strung tight enough. Any recommendations on how to do it and what kind of rope is best to use?
Joel
The new system is awesome! Simple to use and just an all around great boot. So much so that I became a dealer recently. The drainage system in the boots is the best on the market in my opinion. My biggest gripe about Simms boots is they take FOREVER to dry out! Not a good thing if you are traveling out of country and you are trying to maximize your fishing time.
The svelt sole looks like a solid idea, but they are a bit on the expensive side and even the rep told me that they would not last very long if you were tramping up and down river banks. I think studded Kling-ons would be the way to go for the slippery stuff.
Joel
😉
Plus .. Those BBW boats are pretty sexy!
True, but there are no beer holders.
>:(
My biggest complaint about the boats Lando. Clacka certainly has that part figured out in a big way!
I am of course a little bias but think you made an excellent choice choosing the Boulder boat as your top pick. Recently Corey Kruitbosch and I hooked up and floated and fished. We fished out of my boat the first day on the Missouri and out of a Clacka the next day on the Madison. It has been a while since I have rowed another persons boat and I was stunned at how less responsive the Clacka was compared to my Boulder Boat. I think Corey was too. Needless to say I bet Corey ends up with a Boulder Boat someday. 😉
Zach, PM me the amount you are willing to spend on boat and trailer. I will keep my eyes open for a good deal for you. The Boulder Boat is pretty popular in the Missoula area and I know some of the guides using them had rough years and may need to unload their boats.
Joel
Very nice stuff there Stu. Love the food shot! Looks like the beer is taking top priorty in that cart.
Sage couldn’t fix the rod in time
Eric…I hope you have a great trip. Never been but hope to get there soon.
The above quote from your post is just mind boggeling. I know this topic has been beaten to death here on IA but it is simply unfathomable (is that a word) that Sage, the self proclaimed King of the Hill cant get you a rod in time. I can think of 5 different ways they should have and could have had a new rod in your hands for the trip.
Hope you catchem up anyway.
Tim I could not agree more with you on this. One of the first trips I did to the Horn I broke my Winston 6wt right before we left. When I told the customer service people that I was going on a big horn trip they sent me a loaner rod in the same rod to use while they were fixing mine! Why can’t a company like sage do the same? Not to mention Sage’s turn around time on repairs is painfully slow! I guess that is why I dumped Sage from my line up at the shop and picked up Scott instead…
Joel
This is the code of Etiquette from the Fishing Outfitters Association of Montana. http://www.foam-montana.org/etiquette.htm I personally think that following this is good for everyone and I make damn sure my guides do!
Great discussion here for sure.
Joel
