Guided Float fishing trips

[Joel Thompson]

For those of you that don’t know me I am a fishing outfitter in western Montana. I am always shopping my competition to make sure that I remain competitive in a market that can be very tough at times. My question to you all is how much are you willing to pay for a guided float fishing trip and what would expect to get for the money you would spend on the trip?

Joel

[Michael Exl]

$425 with lunch, drinks, flies, and equipment included(if needed of course), and at least 8hrs. of fishing.

[Neal Osborn]

Joel, in your neck of the woods I have noticed that the prices have been steadily increasing well above $500/day over the past two years.  My guide works both Florida and Montana and honestly he and I have had a few words about pricing recently.  I understand both sides of the issue and the economy-of-scale.  Ultimately I had to turn down my annual January Redfish trip because the price was just too high (and he stopped providing lunch).  Furthermore, I will likely have to find a new guide in Montana this fall for same monetary issue.  The problem I see with the industry is similar to the restaurant business.

[Joel Thompson]

Great insight as always Neal! I charge $425 whether we stay out there 5 hours or 12 hours. I try to choose a float based on what the person looking for. Lunch can range from a peanut butter sandwich (very rare but is requested) to fresh cooked tenderlion with all the fixins. I try to get as much information as possible from my clients before we meet face to face so that I make sure they are getting their moneys worth.

Mike, I include all flies, tippet, leader, rods, etc. All people have to do is show up with a smile and a good attitude.

[Zach Matthews]

Joel –

The few times I have paid to be guided the going rate has usually been set up so I can tip my guide and come out having spent about $500 for two anglers.  I don’t care whether the guide provides lunch or not; I want expertise and boat handling.  I can bring my own snacks.  For me $500 is kind of a price threshold; I don’t mind spending $250 for a guided day (as I have always split my guide days when I’ve paid for guiding).

I do think there’s a distinction for wade fishing (which you didn’t ask about).  I figure a good portion of my guide fee is basically a boat rental cost, too.  I’ve been comfortable paying $350 for a day of guided wade fishing (again split between two anglers) but much more than that again would be a problem for me.

I rarely pay to be guided.  Usually I’m either on an assignment or fishing for free with my friends.  I’ve taught myself to row at a mediocre level and I am trying to get better; my thinking is that if a working guide is going to run me in his boat for free, the least I can do is spell him and let him fish for a bit, and me row the boat well enough not to interfere with his fishing.

Zach

[zac sexton]

I don’t know Joel, can your guides Guarantee fricking huge fish all day?! Then I’ll take a 12-hour trip!

[keith b]

Joel,
I have never been on a guided float trip for trout, so this may be apples and oranges, but here are my thoughts on guided trips.
I have paid 500 once for a full day out of Islamorada, Bone/Tarpon.

[Adam McDowell]

I felt like $400 was the going rate for a long time out west.

From talking to my friends out there, the guides aren’t making any more than they were in the early 2000’s, but the outfitters were the ones increasing and sucking up the extra money that went into justifying $460-500 a day due to rising gas costs back in 2005-2008.

To me saltwater captains have so much more overhead than you guys so paying $500 is more justified, after all you can buy like 8 clackas for what a hell’s bay skiff costs

I do get frustrated with increased costs for “Tarpon” trips! There is much more work involved in poling for bones or reds than staking out for tarpon

[Joel Thompson]

Thanks for the input Keith. I work very hard to higher guides that are friendly and very hard working. You may have to put up with a guy that thinks he is the funniest guy in the world (but isn’t) like are friend Zac here but the pay off is he will work very hard for you and you will have a lot of fun once you figure out his dumb sense of humor.

[Joel Thompson]

I felt like $400 was the going rate for a long time out west.

From talking to my friends out there, the guides aren’t making any more than they were in the early 2000’s, but the outfitters were the ones increasing and sucking up the extra money that went into justifying $460-500 a day due to rising gas costs back in 2005-2008

Adam one of the reasons that outfitters have had to increase their take is because of increase fees put on using water ways. For example, everytime I send a guide down the Blackfoot River I have to pay 3% of my gross to Fish Wildlife and Parks. I could go on a HUGE rant about this is something that really gets on my nerves but I won’t as that is not what this topic is about.

We (the outfitters) have also seen an increase in our liability insurance (which the bulk of the liability falls on the outfitter) do all of the marketing and advertising to get clients.

I am not saying that a guide does’t deserve a bump in pay every once in a while especially if they are loyal, work hard, have repeat clients, and stick around from year to year. But the fact is a lot of them do it for a few years and move on to something else. I also think you get what you pay for so it should be fair to everyone involved.

Joel

[Bob Riggins]

I think $400 plus tip is about the max I will pay (and to be perfectly honest, the tip part galls my a!!).  I have yet to get a tip for doing my job.  I would be real interested in seeing how much the guide actually makes and how much is taken by the “outfitter”.  Most of the guides I know in Florida work independently and I’m sure their boat expense is much higher than out west.  The going rate around here is about $450 for a full day, two people, no lunch provided.

[Adam McDowell]

I am not saying that a guide does’t deserve a bump in pay every once in a while especially if they are loyal, work hard, have repeat clients, and stick around from year to year. But the fact is a lot of them do it for a few years and move on to something else. I also think you get what you pay for so it should be fair to everyone involved.

Joel

Many of us have followed a guide from outfitter to outfitter. I know that the price of shuttles has skyrocketed in recent years as well

I forgot to mention that it seems like most of what you spend on a western guide is reinvested locally to help the overall economy

[craig crumbliss]

I guide in Colorado during the summers and Florida the rest of the year.

[Joel Thompson]

I think $400 plus tip is about the max I will pay (and to be perfectly honest, the tip part galls my a!!).  I have yet to get a tip for doing my job.  I would be real interested in seeing how much the guide actually makes and how much is taken by the “outfitter”.

I’ve had some very good guides out west, but I have sworn off float trips.  All the float guides I’ve had seem to want to either troll flies or throw streamers.  If I fish for trout, I want to fish dry flies, so I would rather go on a wade trip.  

All I really want is for the guide to be pleasant and professional, show me where the fish are likely to be and advise me on flies and technique.  Beyond that, I don’t think the guide is responsible for catching the fish.  I also prefer using my own equipment, but the guide should supply the appropriate flies.

Gratuity is a tough one for all parties involved Bob. Unfortunately it has become an expected part of the service industry in the United States. No going back now I am afraid. As far as how much a guide gets and what an outfitter takes I can only speak for myself. I try to “reward” my guides for marketing themselves. When they bring clients to me I keep 50 bucks and they get the rest. If I bring clients to them I keep a 100 bucks and they keep the rest. I am fairly sure my guides get paid more then most but I also feel that is why I have some of the best.

As for your take on float trips being a trolling experience or streamer chucking all day I would say the outfitter failed to do his or her job and see what you were looking for. The boat allows you to cover soooooo much more water then you could even imagine doing on foot. There are many people that I fish with that are exactly like you Bob and want that dry fly fun. We anchor up, maybe get out of the boat depending on the water we are fishing, and fish to head until it quiets down and then we move on until we see more heads coming up. This is a personal favorite of mine, but to be honest it does not always work with two anglers.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone. I love this kind of stuff as I figure it just helps me be better at what I do.

Joel

[John S.]

I tend to get guided approximately once every three years.

[Bob Riggins]

I was probably a little harsh on the tip part.  I don’t begrudge the guide getting paid, including the tip, I just don’t like the system.  I usually assume I will be tipping 20% (in cash) because the guide will be good.  If he is not so good, I’ll tip 15%, never use him again and never recommend him (or her) to anyone else.

It would be interesting to see how much guides actually make.  I would bet the fee part provides the necessities and the tip provides the niceities.  The guides I know do it for the love of fishing, not for getting rich.

PS:

[zac sexton]

Good thread guys (and thanks to Joel, my wonderful boss for querying ya’ll ;)). And just to correct a misunderstanding: I AM funny; just ask me….  ;D

I started guiding at age 17, with a few seasons’ break surveying fish and streams for the Forest Circus, during college. Guides are pretty much making today, what they did when I started. A slight bump after “The Movie” and another with gas, but not much comparatively. I have been on one actual guided trip that my grandmother won (on the Bitterroot!), and found the guide worked his hind-end off and balanced my love of fishing bamboo and my own flies with my grandfather’s (who went on the trip with me) love of just taking pics. I got the front of the boat most the day and had a great time even though the fishing was slow. I did land a 23″ Cuttie, however…. I will remember that day forever, primarily because that guide made it the perfect day with my Grandpa. And that is, in my mind, what we should do — make the day perfect for our clients. Though perfection can sure include some flawed moments….

To do that, it really helps us to know what you are after: just wanna try it out, enjoy the wildlife, swim, fish dry flies all day, etc…? The more your guide knows the better your day should go. That is one thing I respect about Joel, as he is always asking questions of clients so we can give them an unforgettable day, whether it be catching a new species, or just having a great family get-together.

If we have been with clients before, and they happened to leave a tip — well, we are sure to stock-pile favorite beverages, food, and may even break out some personal equipment we feel they will enjoy and tie some flies we feel give a bit of an advantage, among other niceties. Maybe I’ll even stockpile a few extra, really funny jokes….

I have only been on the one actual guided trip, but often fish with guides, who are my friends. And they are guides, because you seem to get treated as a client. You get told where to fish, what fly to use, when to set the hook, and they always seem to insist on rowing ::). Guiding surely gets in your blood and becomes a part of how you live your life. I expect myself and other guides to know more than a few ways to approach a given body of water, and to help their clients learn to fly-fish, as well as appreciate the outdoors. My priorities on the water are, in this order: 1) Safety 2) Fun 3) Fish.

What you get for what price can be iffy. But, by asking the right questions, telling a prospective guide what you want and listening to his/her responses, you should know what you’re getting in to. Prices vary regionally, and maybe picking a guide/outfitter in the middle price-point for that region is a good starting point. Personally, since I’m a broke-arse guide mostly, I look for the seasonal specials, like in the spring/fall, when guides may reduce prices. Sometimes a trip that is usually $450 will go for $350. I use these off-season rates to get in on some of the spring creeks in Paradise Valley, on the Yellowstone river. 😛

Just my 2 cents….

[gavin poppen]

The price depends on where your at and what your doing…$500 a day plus tip seems is the going rate

[Bob Riggins]

My wife does not fish so I am usually on my own.

[Grant Wright]

$500 a day is tops for me (this excludes the tip) —  I consider  a full day as ~8hrs.

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