What is going on in PA??
- This topic has 26 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Jan 6, 2011 at 6:27 pm by
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I have to vent today.
PA is a really jacked up state. It is getting alot worse.
PA is the only state allowing “partially treated” frackwater to be disposed in their waterways. Ah, a little poison is OK, right?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110103/ap_on_he_me/us_gas_drilling_frackwater_4
Lovely, isn’t it?7 permits have been approved in Northeast PA, some of which on the banks of 20 mile creek. (The best Eastside Erie steelhead trib). You can bet your butt that this activity will restrict access to the creek. They CAN and will put up gates, fences and patrol it. I’ve seen it on 4 existing wells that previously had public hunting access. There has been alot of reported vandalism at Marcellus Shale sites.
PA is also considering allowing marcellus gas exploration and drilling on “State Natural Areas.” This includes state forests, hunting grounds, parks- you know the stuff I pay taxes for.
Zach, excuse me if I get political here, but much of the Marcellus gas industry is politically backed/driven….
Tom Corbett, our new incoming governor is surely going to jack things up further. Marcellus shale seems to be his ticket to balancing the budget and creating imaginary jobs. The total campaign contributuions donated by gas drillers for the 2010 elections was $379,500. 88% of that went to Corbett. Hmmmm……. Agenda? paybacks? hmmmm…
The Carnegie Science Museum holds the keys to a huge tract of land called the “Powdermill Nature Reserve.” This is under consideration by the Carnegie folks to put two Marcellus shale wells to get them out of debt. The locals are in an uproar. This is home to some of the prettiest hills in PA as well as some great grouse habitat, many wild brook trout streams that nobody fishes. (*well, not nobody.)
This is right off the Powder Mill Nature Reserve Site:
Powdermill was established in 1956 to serve as a field station of Carnegie Museum of Natural History for long-term studies of natural populations—their life histories, behaviors, and ecological relationships.
Powdermill Nature Reserve is both a place and a philosophy. It stands as a symbol of the human vision—both scientist and philanthropist alike. The museum’s need for a natural area which could be used as a laboratory and preserved for the study of natural processes was understood and outlined in 1948 by Dr. M. Graham Netting, then Assistant Director of Carnegie Museum of Natural History. Since he believed the Ligonier Valley to be the finest natural area in western Pennsylvania, he personally instituted a search for a suitable site for his vision.
In 1956, General and Mrs. Richard K. Mellon and Dr. and Mrs. Alan M. Scaife presented to Carnegie Institute, for the use of the Natural History Museum, eleven tracts of land totaling 1,160 acres, beginning about three miles south of Rector. The area was named “Powdermill Nature Reserve, a Research Station of Carnegie Museum.” Over the next several years, additional acreage was added to the Reserve through other generous gifts, and today, Powdermill Nature Reserve offers over 2,200 acres of woodlands, streams, open fields, ponds, and thickets.
The reserve is used by scientists to monitor and study changes in the local ecology and wildlife populations. It has served as a refuge for many plants and animals which, as a result of habitat distruction, are now becoming increasingly rare in our region as their habitats are destroyed. Powdermill Run, the mountain spring stream that traverses the mixed deciduous forest property, was found to be one of the very few unpolluted streams available for ongoing studies of aquatic life.
Today, as the Reserve celebrates its fifty-year anniversary, it is far more beautiful than when it was established, due to the natural growth of protected vegetation and the efforts of many supporters.
We have a reservior that provides drinking water to 300,000 residents in a nearby community. There are 2 Marcellus Shale wells right on its banks, (1000 feet) with frackwater holding ponds that if they overflow will flow downhill into the reservior. The county is “selling” water to the drilling company (Consol/Dominion) to be used in fracking. The reservior is down as near as I can tell 11 feet, based on the bridge mark.
This impoundment was made in 1955 and is owned by the county. Home to bears, deer, eagles, and lots of fish. Fishing and hunting is strictly forbidden and always has been on this property. The reason always given was that since it is a drinking water supply, it needs to be protected and kept pristine. WTF? They have permits for 7 more pads, which can have up to 15 wells each, there are plans for a compressor station and 27 acres have been cleared so far for the two that exist. This is all 2.7 miles as the crow flies from my house.
I have a real nice farm, house and property that may be coming up for sale at a real attractive price if this crap gets any worse.
That sucks Dave. I have heard from friends of mine hear in Montana that use to live in PA that it is out of control there right now. One of my buddies told me just last week that his Dad sold his mineral/natural gas rights to some big company for a pile of cash. His dad wanted to retire and everyone around him was selling out so he figured he may as well jump on board.
My view (and I am sure you and I think a like hear) is that we need to do EVERYTHING we can to protect water and keep it as clean as possilbe. It is far to precious fo us not too.
Joel
This is certainly the biggest environmental issue facing the commonwealth since the industrial revolution. It is amazingly far reaching and has tenacles in pretty much every area of life.
Obviously there are severe impacts to our drinking water and natural resources. Rivers, streams, lakes, forrests, open space, etc etc.
Go to youtube and check out some of the video’s that show people lighting their tap water, right out of their kitchen sink on fire! Some places in TX and WY have told people not to shower or bathe tool long because it might cause an unsafe condition in their home!
Imgaine putting your whole life into a home on a 3 acre parcel in rural PA…and one day your water is unusable…and you cannot get into public water. A lifes work lost.
Add to that the socio-economic nightmare it is causing. Bradford County, PA is a great example. There is more drilling right now in Bradford County than any other county in PA. You CANNOT get a hotel room anywhere in, or near the county right now. Period. All booked. Most of the drillers are Texas guys and they have moved to PA to drill. There isnt enough housing to go around. Some have brought their families with them fililng classrooms and daycares.
The population boom has put incredible strain on emergency services. Police, fire, EMT, hospitals…all cannot keep up.
Local bars are now filled with Texas boys hitting on the home town PA gals…bar fights all over.
Domestic violence has increased. Petty crime up. Drug use, up.
There is so much truck traffic that basic infrastructure is breaking down.
The flip side to this is that restaraunts, gas stations, and local businesses are seeing record profits. But this is only temporary. What happens when the gas is gone?
I could sit here all day and go off on why I am against the drilling…but none of it will ever make a difference.
For me it boils down to 2 things.
1. Planning.
Why not put a moratorium on dilling like the other states until local gov’t and planners can come up with a way to move forward with drilling in a safer, more well managed way? Like Dave said, Whats the rush! Its not going anywhere. (the rush is our state is billions in debt…and people want to get re-elected) Imagine instead of giving permits to 50 drilling companies for rights in PA…to only give permits to 6 companies. And then those 6 companies have to work together on using the same pipelines, road systems, wastewater facilities, etc etc. This alone would reduce the damage to the ecosystem by measureable amounts.2. Copy Alaska.
If we are going to drill, why not make it work for us, the people of Pennsylvania? We all know how rich Alaska is in natural resources. Most of it historically leaves the state and in some cases leaves the country. If I am not mistaken, Alaska has taken measures to ensure that all Alaskan’s get a cut of the bounty. I am sure some of you out there know better than I but I think ever citizen of Alaska gets $1,000? or maybe $2,000 a year, just for being a citizen…and the fact that the oil, gas, and other resources are being stripped from the state and leaving town.
But no…our PA gas tax will simply dissappear into the coffers of Harrisburg.
Enough of my novel. At the end of the day they are going to drill there simply isnt much I can do about it.
OH…and Dave.
Tim,
Don’t copy all of alaska- Pebble is a bad deal.
20 mile still has access for now, but up middle road- where the tomato patch is will go away with this shale gas.
I certainly was not implying Pebble…
Nice to see the Pa boys the mix here. Howdy fella’s! Just last weekend I watched the documentary – “Gas Land”, available through Netflix. Unbelievable – a well done film.
Someone mentioned earlier that drilling was the choice of the land owner. That’s not completely true. Dick Chaney and company made it possible for gas companies (like his own – Haliburton) to get at the gas under your property even if you don’t sign off. They can access the gas under your land from outside of your land. And it doesn’t really matter anyway, if your neighbor sells out its likely that your ground water / well / creek will be poisoned even though you refused.
Dave – I think imitating Ak would be a great thing. Having lived in both states my impression is that Ak residents are way more out in front on all things fish protecting. In addition, the horse has already left the barn on this gas stuff while Pebble is largely still on the drawing board. Pebble opposition seems to be gaining strength as more and more data is collected. Hesitant Pebble politicians seem to be gaining momentum also. Senator Murkowski’s was frequently quoted regarding her thoughts on Pebble saying we need to be “very precautionary and not trade one resource (salmon) for another resource (gold / copper).” And she kicked Joe Millers ass as a write in! So yea, I think Pa imitating Ak on this one would be a good move.Just last weekend I watched the documentary – “Gas Land”, available through Netflix. Unbelievable – a well done film.
Someone mentioned earlier that drilling was the choice of the land owner. That’s not completely true. Dick Chaney and company made it possible for gas companies (like his own – Haliburton) to get at the gas under your property even if you don’t sign off. They can access the gas under your land from outside of your land. And it doesn’t really matter anyway, if your neighbor sells out its likely that your ground water / well / creek will be poisoned even though you refused.
KbGlad to see you can get relatively current films up there. 😉
Gas Land indeed is required viewing for anyone wanting to background on this.
And to the other issue…PA is still trying to decide which way it wants to go on this. I think the number was 60% or something like that. If the drillers get rights to 60% of the land surrounding your property they can then go in “underneath” you. Either way they are still going to get it…and still damage the aquifers.
Hey Numpy…pretty balmy up there recently…better make some drifts.
http://www.energyindepth.org/2010/06/debunking-gasland/
This website breaks the film down bit by bit.
Fair enough…lets let politics out of it.
So will a spill happen? probably.
Already has…and they’ve just started drilling.
At the end of the day no one outside of a small segment of sportsman care about the fish.
It all comes down to drinking water. No one will bat an eye until a major cities drinking water is impacted.
“Already has…and they’ve just started drilling.”
That statement is highly inaccurate, fracking has been going on for quite some time, in this state and in others.
The Haynesville Shale, in north Louisiana, is also one of the “boom” areas.
I think the BP spill we suffered through last year was proof enough that things can get really bad, really quick.
My own .02, I don’t like it. I don’t buy the reassurances that fresh water and aquifers cannot be contaminated. Such declarations of certainty are often famous last words.
Nothing, nothing, nothing should be exempt from the Clean Water Act.Colin,
Take a visit over here:
http://www.marcellus-shale.us/Cross_Creek_drilling.htmAnd then stop over the house and we can walk over to two frack sites and you can tell me first hand what you see.
Nothing, nothing, nothing should be exempt from the Clean Water Act.
DING DING! We have a winner! These laws are in place for a reason.
Colin: I’ll agree with you. Gasland was way too one sided for me and I really felt that the director blew a good chance to present a good valid argument.
I’ll leave the politics at this, but it needs to be pointed out. Was it just a coincidence that Dick Cheney was the chairman/CEO of Halliburton and resource extraction regulations relaxed as soon as he and GW got into office? He has just as much to do with gas extraction operations in PA as he does anywhere else. Enough about that…
I am all for responsible extraction, but the biggest thing that scares me about the whole situation is that nobody can say for sure what the hell is happening out there on so many levels. The only people that are absolutely sure that this whole process is safe are the people that stand to make money from it and you know how that goes. I can’t help but think that if many other industries were to put a product/process on the market that could cause damage on such a large scale, it would immediately be yanked.
Disposal/treatment of wastewater is a major issue. We have had issues here in Pittsburgh already. TDS (total dissolved solid) levels on the Monongahela and Youghiogheny rivers (Metro Pittsburgh’s water supply) have already been dangerously close to exceeding regulations (http://www.propublica.org/article/pennsylvanias-drilling-wastewater-released-to-streams-some-unaccounted-for).
There was also a major fishkill on Dunkard Creek, which was a prime piece of Musky water (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09268/1000694-113.stm).
I could go on, but you get the point. There is a lot of wrongs going on in this “rush” to get the gas out of the ground and much of it could be avoided if the state would just slow the industry down and figure this out, get the infrastructure up to speed and hold the industry accountable for what is happening (road damages, dust control and any environmental/social issues that come of this). If you have been around a drilling area before, during and after drilling occurs, you would certainly understand what I mean.
Whew…
“I am all for responsible extraction, but the biggest thing that scares me about the whole situation is that nobody can say for sure what the hell is happening out there on so many levels.
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