shadowflyfishing
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Your lines are made overseas. That doesn’t bother me. I drove a Toyota one time.<br>
They come in neat colors. That is nice.<br>
They are inexpensive. That is a huge plus.<br>
But what the hell are you selling me? The only thing I care about when buying a line is how it is tapered, how it is constructed and what it is meant to do. Just provide us with some information on how these lines were designed to be fished and we will start listening. Until then I will tell you bluntly, no one on this board cares that you can give us lines in unique colors. Start selling your product for how it performs and not how it looks. I said that this board was not your target market because the people on this board fish A LOT and know what they want. If you can’t tell us something more than “people like them”, no one here is going to take you seriously.The taper chart is being made now, that was said at least 5 times.
Not sure if you noticed but I was not on here marketing my product. I came on here to clear up some false statements not market the fly lines. Some fishermen do not care about the taper of their lines but rather would just get out and fish. This is why people are buying them already without even knowing the tapers.
For the fishermen who really care, and a lot do, the taper chart is being made now and I know this is important and am trying my best to get around to it. The lines have been out a little over a week and being I have to color these myself every order, I have been very busy. I was able to get around to weighing the grains.
I asked you what you thought our target market was, you never answered…
I also asked you to post the questions I did not answer. Do you have any I can clear up because there were none in your previous post Andrew. I would like to finish this thread off by answering all the questions right now. We are pretty much just repeating page 1-2 again.
Oh, and people are not just saying, they are pretty and inexpensive. They are also saying they lay out well and float nicely.
Thanks for the post!
I say that to say this……it looks like the Chinese are marketing their product line to individuals now (via Ebay)…. as well as U.S. retailers. If this catches on….it will be interesting to see how it affects the industry. I’m guessing the local fly shops will feel the pinch first.This is really sad.
Hey Steve thanks for the post!
These manufacturers have been selling their products on ebay for years.
Whats hurting the fly shops is the fact that all of the companies are selling directly off of their websites now…. We do this but it is something you just have to do this day in age… We display our products in our local fly shop at no cost. They get profit just for selling and displaying our fly rods. We are testing this right now. There is no risk for them and they make a nice chunk of cash just for selling and displaying our product. Hopefully we can continue to expand on this as it is huge for the shops and would be an awesome turning point on how the shops go about purchasing their inventory. Our shops are beneficial to everything in fly fishing. There are some companies around now that are “online only” and make a killing.. This is not something we are striving for and is something we shook right out of the gate..
I love the fact that a customer can walk into a shop, see our product, and hold it before they purchase it.
Unfortunately some fisherman do not even need to hold, fish, or see a product before they already have an opinion on its quality..lol
I can say however the line you posted in the ebay link is not the line we are selling.
Thanks Steve!
Shadowflyfishing,<br>
I honestly believe that if you gave us some relevant information about your product, you would have at least a few people on this forum interested in trying it out. So far you have offered up numerous posts that danced around every question posed and basically told us that people loved them because they were neat and good and come in pretty colors.apparently I missed a few questions because I feel I have taken the time and have answered everyone questions in this three page thread quoting them.
Everything else has been answered, they are made in Asia, the taper chart is coming soon, there are no wear and tear reviews yet and they are just being sent out.
Please, collect every question (regarding the fly line) I have missed, post it, and I will answer them and we can call it a day. I am not dancing around anything lol. People do love them because they are good, affordable, and they come in pretty colors that is a fact.
also, you say users on the forum are not in our target market.. Can you explain this? I am curious to know what you think our target market is?
We are currently in contact with manufacturers here in PA to get our fly reel prototype mass produced. The fly line will continue to be made in Asia for now. The quality and price are both outstanding and as a start-up business just launching months ago that is huge for us right now.
This thread has certainly been more entertaining than I expected.
LOL! and now im done. Thanks again Zach! Send me an email man. I want to discuss the board with you, its great I have been looking around.
I don’t think it’s the difference of opinion that is causing us to butt heads, it’s the total reeducation you are giving me (I’ll speak for myself) on fly lines.
Are any of the “improvements” in fly lines over the last 20 or so years real or are they just marketing gimmicks? Is it just a marketing ploy that all lines are not the same stiffness, do not have the same texture, coatings and so on that they had then? Since you say much of this is just marketing, do your lines save us money by doing away with these?
I do have one opinion though that is nothing but opinion, as far as color, all lines could be light, dark, or clear as far as my use.
Out of respect to you and others on the site the last word is yours, I’m checking out.
I am not giving anyone a reeducation on anything. I said I respect your opinions.
Our lines are great modern day fly lines. Its not that our lines do not offer these features… The question is should a customer be paying $90 for these extra features and how much “better” does it make the line itself?
Thanks for your time Randy I would like to further discuss getting a line to you in an email, I hate bad blood and was not here to argue but clear up speculation on one of our products. Maybe I can send you a sample line? If you like it you can then pay for it, if not send it back.
As said to everyone on the board if the line does not meet your standards we take care of issues right away. I am confident in these lines and customers (who have actually held and fished them) in the last few weeks or so are praising them.
Some people will not like the lines. There is no way around that but I think most will love them.
Maybe the words shadowflyfish should have noticed in Chris’s post were tropical and temperate. Less on salt and fresh as far as stiffness goes.
The string vs wire comparison is also bizarre along with the rest of that quote. I know, shadow has no opinion on the quote.
I do wonder about the tippet vs 0000# line hitting the water comment. I think you almost always have to lead the fish for this reason and not hit the fish with the line (line the fish). I also believe the appearance of a clear line 9′ or 12 to 14′ away at the fat end of a leader, is not the same as it would appear at the fishes nose. Clear lines sometimes do matter.
I still say I don’t mean to be harsh. I just see more red flags.
Red flags? Just because my opinions are different than yours on technique should not throw up any “red flags” about product quality. I agree leading to the fish nymph fishing and dry fly fishing is important and is actually my biggest thing. A clean drift catches fish. However if you are throwing streamers odds are you are casting on top of schools of fish and we all know how effective streamer fishing can be from time to time. I myself (again “my opinion” I respect yours) is that the weight of the line hitting the water would be thing scaring the fish if anything at all not color.
I respect your opinion that clear line does matter but I have never had issues with any color of fly line scaring fish so I have to disagree.
Everyone has their own opinions on technique, mine work for me, and im sure yours work for you.
Chris, thanks for the post!
I am such a liar seems like I will not stop posting lol.
I am working on getting the taper chart up. Check the site periodically in the next few days! Its a lot of work coloring the lines and getting them out super fast/keeping up with emails. I was lucky enough to find time to get the grain ratings weighed out. Working on this next may take a bit.
The lines float nice and are supple. I am not sure they would be the greatest salt lines if you prefer a stiffer line. I know guys like stiffer lines but I also know there are people who feel there is no need. I dug this quote up I read a while back on a random site. I have no opinion on the matter, I tend to try to not be so critical and just worry about how it actually performs while I am fishing. If I can cast the line well ( no line has ever made a difference in my casting to be honest), it floats, lasts a decent while, and is a good fair price then I consider it a good line.
“I primarily fish salt water in fairly windy conditions. I prefer supple fly lines which are easier to manage while wade fishing or kayak fishing. I do not understand any need for ,or the casting advantages of, “stiff” lines.
If you hang a length of wire and an equal length of string between two posts — they will sag the same.
It seems to me that the stiffness craze grew out of marketing, or as a novice caster confidence builder — not from the realities of casting.” – QUOTE TAKEN FROM ANOTHER FLY FISHERMANI have no opinion on the quote above. It is just something to think about. I can tell you the fly fishing world is flooded with performance gimmicks. A lot of anglers would rather spend a decade finding the perfect “make me fish better product” then actually go out and learn the most important aspects of fly fishing. We have never mentioned anything about the color of the line doing anything for anyone, I myself do not believe “a clear fly line offers stealth advantages. I just watched a video of an Airflo transparent line the other day and the fisherman was saying how important it is in situations to have transparent fishing line…. ehh, if you worry about the size of your tippet, you do not think they would be able to see a transparent fly line the equivalent of 0000X hitting the water?” I catch trout in muddy water on size 20 caddis emergers. You think they can not see your fly line/tippet? I stopped using super light tippet nymph fishing a few years ago. It had no effect on how many fish I caught but saved me flies. It may be different for other fisherman though but not around here. Just some things to think about.
The salt should not effect the line to much. I have not had time to fish these lines in salt conditions. I do not do much salt water fishing as it is. Would love for someone to give these a beating in the salt! We actually add a type of salt into the coloring process and it does not effect the line but I guess extended Sea Salt abuse could have an effect.
Thanks
” He’s not speculating. He’s one of the two or three most knowledgeable people about fly lines on the planet”
As I am sure he is very knowledgeable about fly lines, he is speculating as he has never fished nor seen the fly line we are selling. I am sure he can take a look at the line and know its quality right away, until he does that then it is speculation.
SA makes great lines, “however with hard use fly lines (no matter what brand) will need replaced… You can get two years out of a $90 fly line or two years out of a $20 fly line. One making you mend better? Not sure about that. Not sure I would ever try to claim to one of my customers a line is going to make them cast farther or mend better either but we know people eat that right up.
I have taken the time out of my day to respond to everyone’s questions in order. I am not sure why you keep saying “answer questions.” I have a ton of posts quoting and answering everyone in order. You can jump back through the pages in the thread to see that.
As for a review you say you write unbiased reviews and do not judge products until you fish them but the first thing you said in this thread was “Phil, no lie, for that price they have to be terrible.” SA has some very friendly priced fly lines. $27.00… This is from a company with a well known name and quality line. Now would you say the $27 line is junk from SA? I mean its only $7 more. Really why would SA sell a line for $27.00? Because they can. They are still making a profit on their cheaper lines. What are you really paying for in their upper end lines?
I will be done posting now if anyone has questions email me.
Thanks for letting me to continue to post Zach! You have a very good community of passionate fly fisherman here that’s forsure!
Spend your money any way you like, I like to support my local fly shop. If I have a problem I can walk in the door and talk it over with them.
But shadowfly, I promise to buy one of your lines and fish it for a season if you will first read, Death by China, by Navarro & Autry.<br>
In fact lets trade even money, I paid more than $20 for the book but it’s been read once.Sorry Randy thanks for the offer not much of a reader. With all the “send me a free line to review and trade me stuff for one” it seems like you guys are very curious =)
The whole debate is something I want to get away from. I spend tons of money at the local post office shipping these products, spend tons of money paying my local printing business to print the packaging and will only spend more as we slowly grow over the next few years. The money is being put right back into the U.S market and supports local business. The post office guys always get excited when I come in, joking I am keeping them open, like something out of mayberry LOL. Not everything is done overseas for start up businesses, this is something the mass looks over.
Hope to see you guys on one of our products one day. They are great, the fly rods are one of a kind and the line is solid. I am just trying to sell quality products everyone can afford. Purchase a line and I will throw in a free pack of fly tying hooks. Just mention you are from the board in your order.
Mike
Mr Shadow Fly Fishing
For the record, I never made any comments about your lines being junk based on price – in fact I never said your lines were junk. I have, more than likely, torn apart your line and tested it up and down. There are only so many Asian fly line makers and I’m certain you’re not their only customer. I’ll continue to keep the results of those tests and my opinions of the lines to myself.
I also applaud you for breaking the mold. Yes, fly lines are way too expensive. However, comparing one of your lines to a 90 dollar line is not comparing apples to apples. Most of the major fly line manufacturers sell several tiers of products. Your lines would fall more toward the bottom of those product levels – which is ok. In fact, it’s great. There is a huge hole in low level fly fishing products, especially lines, that needs to be filled. Unfortunately, dealers push the high end, especially in lines, so most people think an expensive line is the only option. It’s not – most low performing lines will meet 95% of the average anglers abilities. Why buy a line that helps you mend better when you don’t even know what mending the line means!?
And bypassing the dealer all together – that’s a bold move. That definitely helps keep the cost of your lines low. Time will only tell if it works out for you.
Sorry Tim,
I had edited my original post. I took a look at your avatar and being that I am new here it did not register it was default and you were someone else. I thought you were someone who was bashing the lines in an earlier post I apologize.
Thanks for your friendly post as I am not here to argue with anyone.
If you can mend you can mend. An expensive fly line has never made me fish or mend any better. I feel there is a ton of “Makes you mend better and shoot farther” going on in fly fishing right now and people eat it right up. Paired with high price tags and the anglers favorite company logo printed on the box, it just makes customers feel better.
Pick your favorite fly line type it into google and type cracking after it. Im sure you will be delighted to see how many people have ripped through their “investment” in no time.
“Most of the major fly line manufacturers sell several tiers of products. Your lines would fall more toward the bottom of those product levels”
This quote is speculation as you have never fished the lines. Once again its another post displaying how the members here are not giving the line a chance and have had their minds made up regardless of ever even seeing the product in person.
Send me an email if you want to check out some lines, we can work something out. I spend most of my time on the water and consider myself to be a seasoned fly fisherman. These lines meet my needs well. I would like to get your unbiased opinion on them after giving them a chance!
bout the $20 Asian import fly line. I am just not sure you’re giving the guys on this board enough credit. (And I’m pretty certain you haven’t figured out who Tim is yet). Generally speaking you don’t want to underestimate your potential customers. Buzzwords and reassurances are awesome (!) great (!) and spectacular (!) but most people just want their questions answered so they can decide for themselves.
Sorry Zach, I was not trying to come off as if I was running down anyone’s abilities, and I am sure there are fisherman on the board who are just great. As said before I really like the looks of the board. I was referring to the fact that you said, its $20.. it must be junk. That’s not very fair. I am on here to rid away of false comments by a few members. Opinions did not bother me, it was the false fact that did.
I am not sure why you keep saying $20 imported line.. These are the prices we set lol.. If It was $90 imported line would it make you feel better?
I feel I have done very well answering questions. I have even said I will take care of any issues with the lines =).. So we have a $20 line you can get any color in the world and if anything goes terribly wrong it will be compensated for right away.
Email me so we can talk further about a review. info@shadowflyfishing.com
Sorry I did not see a page 2
Zach,
I am already almost out of 5wt lines. A few customers got the lines out on the water in the last few days and are loving them. I just cant give away lines because of speculation. They are only $20 right now and I said we would take care of any issues if there were any.
I may be able to send you an 8wt line for review, the 5s are simply a no go.
A customer messaged me on facebook yesterday..
“Found some open water today and wsd able to throw some streamers with the 8wt line. Lets just say its the best $20 I’ve spent in a while! Great fly line”
Tim,
Sometimes you do not get what you pay for. Ive had expensive lines that have cracked and did not float very well right out of the package. I have been fishing the line all winter, its good line. Without overseas manufacturing the few jobs we have created here would simply not be in effect right now and that is big for some of us here. I mean come on, $90 for a fly line? If paying high prices for your gear makes you feel more comfortable then that’s great and i am sure you fish enough to get your use out of it. This is quality line and an absolute steal for $20.“As far as I’m concerned, moving your product to Asia but saying you’re creating jobs here to package a product is a bunch of bullshit. You added one job here for every 10 there.”
Our product was not moved to Asia. We started there due to the more realistic manufacturing costs and quality of product. We are a brand new fly fishing company we sell more than fly lines and do a lot more than just “package a product”
We put a lot of money into local US business. There are benefits for the US for overseas manufacturing. You can disagree but can not deny the biggest employers in this country get there inventory elsewhere.
We are offering our customers a fair price for quality products you can do whatever you want with that. Maybe you could test run a line with Zach and let me know your opinions. I am sure you guys are very educated and can help me make a better product (if need be) simply because the overseas manufacturing is capable of doing anything.
I would love to have someone take a look at these lines on the board but honestly it has been nothing but unbiased opinion on a product none of you have even seen before. I have to be careful with who I can get a real opinion from especially if your minds were already made up because of the price tag we set the prices at….
Chris,
We currently do not have a 6wt line. We are adding a 4wt DT line in about a month. We just put the lines out and the 5wts are already almost sold out. I will try to get some 6 wts added asap!
Zach,
I could do that for you! Select the tip color line and just type in what you want used. EX:…… n20, bg32, alternating every 10ft.
We are adding a slightly discounted tip colored line to our website every month. Here is this months line.
Attachments:
Curtis,
The line will be great for lawn casting! Just as it is great for fly fishing!
Randy,
I can appreciate that! However it has created a few jobs here in the U.S…. Ours… Hopefully many more as we grow… Much like the overseas manufacturing creates a ton of jobs here in the U.S.. Lowest bidder? We pay a high production cost for our fly rods, very high. They are incredible. I appreciate your opinion and can understand your view on it.
Zach,
A U.S. made line is going to be more expensive. Our workers demand much more pay and benefits than overseas manufacturing. This reflects production costs in America not the performance of a product. Not to long ago I heard on the radio that a farmer could not find anyone to pick berries on his farm for $14 an hour. That is insane, I would pick berries for $14 an hour.
I understand some of you made your minds up as soon as you saw the price tag without even fishing the product. I am fine with that, I just wanted to clear up some false data about the lines.
For those of you curious enough to try the lines if there are ANY issues, I will address them right away as stated before.
I am very proud of the work from our manufacturer. The amount of work they put in and the products they are capable of making are outstanding and only getting better. This is why a lot of companies are heading overseas. Companies here hire U.S. workers to ship, package, distribute, assemble, and fish the products that are made overseas. As far as I am concerned those are good jobs created in our country due to overseas manufacturing.
Zach, I sent you an email please check for it.
Phil Brna, I will consider but if I gave away products because of internet forum skepticism I would not be running a very good business. Customers are purchasing the lines, loving the idea, and praising the way they cast. Unfortunately I do not have a wear and tear review yet but I have been steelheading all winter with mine, no issues. They are only $20 and if you are unsatisfied with a the line we take care of issues instantly.
Eric, The lines are not in the shop we are just rolling them out now.
randy, I am sorry you “do not like anything Asian.” There is nothing I can do about the preference of where you like your products to be made. Keep in mind there is a fine line between “made in the USA” and “Assembled in the USA.” These lines are a steal.
Now really, please no more questions, I am not following the rules of the forum and I do not like that.
I encourage you to purchase a line, if you do not like it, we will take care of any issues right away.
Please email me questions
What does “color processed in Pa” mean? Would you say you are a manufacturing, or marketing company? Where are your products made?
What would you say will be the price of your lines after the introduction is over?
We do the coloring of the lines here in PA for the customer once they place an order. The coloring of the lines is mostly for fun. The chemical added to the line as it is colored will create a small layer over it. Unlike traditional lines the color is not a part of the PVC , it is in addition to the PVC and adds a layer that would not normally be there. This is how we get our custom color. We can see this process take place when the line is taking on its new color the customer orders. We are not claiming this will be able to make you cast 50000 feet, because it wont. We thinks its a fun and novel idea and the customers seem to agree. Some of the stuff people are coming up with make their setups look awesome!
We are neither a manufacturing nor a marketing company. I have personally designed our rods myself. We work closely with our manufacturer in Asia to ensure our products are unique. As you can tell by looking at our rods no one is offering anything identical to the designs nor the specs of them. Especially at the price point. We have guides switching over to our rods and fishing the few wts and sizes we have exclusively. They are unlike any other rods on the market, that may be a good or bad thing depending on your preferences. Feedback on the rods has been universally positive.
The price of the lines may slightly go up, currently they are doing very well at this price point. We do not have a set price yet. However, manufacturing ANY fly line is not very expensive. It is just a simple piece of PVC. They will always be budget friendly. Prices vary in fly lines, sometimes you just pay for the logo on the box. Price does not always reflect performance and quality, especially from a 5 month old company.
I am confident in the lines and think most will be surprised. If there are any issues with our lines once they start being fished more extensively issues will be taken care of. I personally have had no issues fishing them thus far in the testing phases.
Please email me if you guys have any further questions. I am not a member on this forum and do not like posting as a business. This seems like a very good forum, I will contact the admins to see if there is any advertising room. Until then, I will not be posting any further. I just felt the need to clarify misconceptions of a product we are very proud of. I am near the email most of the day so questions are answered immediately.
Thank you guys!
Hey guys Shadow fly fishing here,
I want to address a few things. First of all thanks for making the post Zach.
“Interesting concept but the $19.99 price scares me”
The lines are priced at $19.99 due to an introductory price. Customer feedback has been 100% positive on the lines and you can see that on our facebook page. There have been no wear and tear performance reviews on the lines. Feedback has been based on coloring and casting. The few people that have the lines are loving the way the line shoots and they are having a blast with the color combinations.“Also, there was some discussion about the lines falling apart or delaminating pretty quickly.”
I assure you no one has had the time or opportunity to have this happen. The lines have been on the market for about a week. We just shipped the first batches days ago. This is based on speculation not actual fact or custom experience.“no lie, for that price they have to be terrible.”
I appreciate your opinion but I would love for you to fish one of these lines. If there are ANY issues, we refund money and take care of issues instantly.Check out our website guys we are offering very high quality products at great intro prices. We need to be competitive as a new company.
Thanks!
http://www.shadowflyfishing.com
http://www.facebook.com/shadowflyfishMike
