Company offers fly line in any color you want
- This topic has 55 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Aug 7, 2014 at 8:07 am by
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Zach, why don’t you conduct one of your excellent, unbiased product evaluations? I just cannot bring myself to pay 20 bucks for a fly line which I will use when I fly in somewhere, or drive hours to fish, or walk miles to my spot when I have a risk of product failure. I have never been happy with the end result when buying poorly made or low quality stuff. I just read your boga article vs brand x comparison and that is a prime example. The fly lines I buy are expensive but I know I can depend on them.
Hey thanks Phil, I am glad people are reading those. I try to mix it up in there.
Shadow, if you’re still reading this, I’ll review one of your lines if you want to send one. I’ll even send it back if you include return postage; my standard offer when I review a product–I have drawers full of lines and don’t need another. I promise to be unbiased.
Zach
I am very proud of the work from our manufacturer. The amount of work they put in and the products they are capable of making are outstanding and only getting better. This is why a lot of companies are heading overseas. Companies here hire U.S. workers to ship, package, distribute, assemble, and fish the products that are made overseas. As far as I am concerned those are good jobs created in our country due to overseas manufacturing.
I too am very proud of the people coating, measuring, QA’ing, coiling, and cutting the lines here at the US – which is 95% of the line manufacturing. US made lines are expensive, yes, but you get what you pay for. As far as I’m concerned, moving your product to Asia but saying you’re creating jobs here to package a product is a bunch of bullshit. You added one job here for every 10 there.
Sorry I did not see a page 2
Zach,
I am already almost out of 5wt lines. A few customers got the lines out on the water in the last few days and are loving them. I just cant give away lines because of speculation. They are only $20 right now and I said we would take care of any issues if there were any.
I may be able to send you an 8wt line for review, the 5s are simply a no go.
A customer messaged me on facebook yesterday..
“Found some open water today and wsd able to throw some streamers with the 8wt line. Lets just say its the best $20 I’ve spent in a while! Great fly line”
Tim,
Sometimes you do not get what you pay for. Ive had expensive lines that have cracked and did not float very well right out of the package. I have been fishing the line all winter, its good line. Without overseas manufacturing the few jobs we have created here would simply not be in effect right now and that is big for some of us here. I mean come on, $90 for a fly line? If paying high prices for your gear makes you feel more comfortable then that’s great and i am sure you fish enough to get your use out of it. This is quality line and an absolute steal for $20.“As far as I’m concerned, moving your product to Asia but saying you’re creating jobs here to package a product is a bunch of bullshit. You added one job here for every 10 there.”
Our product was not moved to Asia. We started there due to the more realistic manufacturing costs and quality of product. We are a brand new fly fishing company we sell more than fly lines and do a lot more than just “package a product”
We put a lot of money into local US business. There are benefits for the US for overseas manufacturing. You can disagree but can not deny the biggest employers in this country get there inventory elsewhere.
We are offering our customers a fair price for quality products you can do whatever you want with that. Maybe you could test run a line with Zach and let me know your opinions. I am sure you guys are very educated and can help me make a better product (if need be) simply because the overseas manufacturing is capable of doing anything.
I would love to have someone take a look at these lines on the board but honestly it has been nothing but unbiased opinion on a product none of you have even seen before. I have to be careful with who I can get a real opinion from especially if your minds were already made up because of the price tag we set the prices at….
Shadow –
Have to agree with you here:
honestly it has been nothing but unbiased opinion
Not to like toot my own horn or whatever, but I’ve been writing about fly fishing products in the national media since 2006.
There’s some basis to our questions.
Not that you need an extensive background writing unbiased national magazine articles about this industry to, you know, have a few questions about the $20 Asian import fly line. I am just not sure you’re giving the guys on this board enough credit. (And I’m pretty certain you haven’t figured out who Tim is yet). Generally speaking you don’t want to underestimate your potential customers. Buzzwords and reassurances are awesome (!) great (!) and spectacular (!) but most people just want their questions answered so they can decide for themselves.
Zach
bout the $20 Asian import fly line. I am just not sure you’re giving the guys on this board enough credit. (And I’m pretty certain you haven’t figured out who Tim is yet). Generally speaking you don’t want to underestimate your potential customers. Buzzwords and reassurances are awesome (!) great (!) and spectacular (!) but most people just want their questions answered so they can decide for themselves.
Sorry Zach, I was not trying to come off as if I was running down anyone’s abilities, and I am sure there are fisherman on the board who are just great. As said before I really like the looks of the board. I was referring to the fact that you said, its $20.. it must be junk. That’s not very fair. I am on here to rid away of false comments by a few members. Opinions did not bother me, it was the false fact that did.
I am not sure why you keep saying $20 imported line.. These are the prices we set lol.. If It was $90 imported line would it make you feel better?
I feel I have done very well answering questions. I have even said I will take care of any issues with the lines =).. So we have a $20 line you can get any color in the world and if anything goes terribly wrong it will be compensated for right away.
Email me so we can talk further about a review. info@shadowflyfishing.com
Mr Shadow Fly Fishing
For the record, I never made any comments about your lines being junk based on price – in fact I never said your lines were junk. I have, more than likely, torn apart your line and tested it up and down. There are only so many Asian fly line makers and I’m certain you’re not their only customer. I’ll continue to keep the results of those tests and my opinions of the lines to myself.
I also applaud you for breaking the mold. Yes, fly lines are way too expensive. However, comparing one of your lines to a 90 dollar line is not comparing apples to apples. Most of the major fly line manufacturers sell several tiers of products. Your lines would fall more toward the bottom of those product levels – which is ok. In fact, it’s great. There is a huge hole in low level fly fishing products, especially lines, that needs to be filled. Unfortunately, dealers push the high end, especially in lines, so most people think an expensive line is the only option. It’s not – most low performing lines will meet 95% of the average anglers abilities. Why buy a line that helps you mend better when you don’t even know what mending the line means!?
And bypassing the dealer all together – that’s a bold move. That definitely helps keep the cost of your lines low. Time will only tell if it works out for you.
Mr Shadow Fly Fishing
For the record, I never made any comments about your lines being junk based on price – in fact I never said your lines were junk. I have, more than likely, torn apart your line and tested it up and down. There are only so many Asian fly line makers and I’m certain you’re not their only customer. I’ll continue to keep the results of those tests and my opinions of the lines to myself.
I also applaud you for breaking the mold. Yes, fly lines are way too expensive. However, comparing one of your lines to a 90 dollar line is not comparing apples to apples. Most of the major fly line manufacturers sell several tiers of products. Your lines would fall more toward the bottom of those product levels – which is ok. In fact, it’s great. There is a huge hole in low level fly fishing products, especially lines, that needs to be filled. Unfortunately, dealers push the high end, especially in lines, so most people think an expensive line is the only option. It’s not – most low performing lines will meet 95% of the average anglers abilities. Why buy a line that helps you mend better when you don’t even know what mending the line means!?
And bypassing the dealer all together – that’s a bold move. That definitely helps keep the cost of your lines low. Time will only tell if it works out for you.
Sorry Tim,
I had edited my original post. I took a look at your avatar and being that I am new here it did not register it was default and you were someone else. I thought you were someone who was bashing the lines in an earlier post I apologize.
Thanks for your friendly post as I am not here to argue with anyone.
If you can mend you can mend. An expensive fly line has never made me fish or mend any better. I feel there is a ton of “Makes you mend better and shoot farther” going on in fly fishing right now and people eat it right up. Paired with high price tags and the anglers favorite company logo printed on the box, it just makes customers feel better.
Pick your favorite fly line type it into google and type cracking after it. Im sure you will be delighted to see how many people have ripped through their “investment” in no time.
“Most of the major fly line manufacturers sell several tiers of products. Your lines would fall more toward the bottom of those product levels”
This quote is speculation as you have never fished the lines. Once again its another post displaying how the members here are not giving the line a chance and have had their minds made up regardless of ever even seeing the product in person.
Send me an email if you want to check out some lines, we can work something out. I spend most of my time on the water and consider myself to be a seasoned fly fisherman. These lines meet my needs well. I would like to get your unbiased opinion on them after giving them a chance!
Spend your money any way you like, I like to support my local fly shop. If I have a problem I can walk in the door and talk it over with them.
But shadowfly, I promise to buy one of your lines and fish it for a season if you will first read, Death by China, by Navarro & Autry.
In fact lets trade even money, I paid more than $20 for the book but it’s been read once.Spend your money any way you like, I like to support my local fly shop. If I have a problem I can walk in the door and talk it over with them.
But shadowfly, I promise to buy one of your lines and fish it for a season if you will first read, Death by China, by Navarro & Autry.<br>
In fact lets trade even money, I paid more than $20 for the book but it’s been read once.Sorry Randy thanks for the offer not much of a reader. With all the “send me a free line to review and trade me stuff for one” it seems like you guys are very curious =)
The whole debate is something I want to get away from. I spend tons of money at the local post office shipping these products, spend tons of money paying my local printing business to print the packaging and will only spend more as we slowly grow over the next few years. The money is being put right back into the U.S market and supports local business. The post office guys always get excited when I come in, joking I am keeping them open, like something out of mayberry LOL. Not everything is done overseas for start up businesses, this is something the mass looks over.
Hope to see you guys on one of our products one day. They are great, the fly rods are one of a kind and the line is solid. I am just trying to sell quality products everyone can afford. Purchase a line and I will throw in a free pack of fly tying hooks. Just mention you are from the board in your order.
Mike
Ok I’ll buy the line, pay the shipping on it, send you the book, pay to ship it to you. After you read it I’ll pay return shipping.
I will give you and only you feedback on the line, you can give me and anyone else you want, your opinion on trade with China after you read the book.
If you like my opinion on your line you can share it with others if you want.
You have nothing to loose.
Hey Mike –
Awesome, we’re making progress. Now we can call you something other than “Mr. Shadow.”
Just so you’re not continuing to dig the hole deeper, I’ll explain. Tim Pommer was in charge of Scientific Anglers’ fly line testing lab in the years leading up to Bruce Richards’ retirement, then took over for Bruce as chief line designer until recently. He’s not speculating. He’s one of the two or three most knowledgeable people about fly lines on the planet, a trained engineer with hundreds of hours of experience cutting up competitors’ lines as well as designing his own (most of which were seriously good and won awards). Here’s his interview on the podcast:
Similarly, this isn’t really a typical fly fishing board. Most of the guys here work in the industry in some capacity, whether as writers like myself, professional guides, or business and fly shop owners. I recognize that you didn’t start this thread (I did), and maybe this is not the place to give business advice, but I really do believe you’d be better off just answering some basic questions and taking the knowledge level of this community seriously.
What tapers are you using? Are they compound or simple WF tapers? Do you have any personal input into the line’s design or are you simply sourcing these from a manufacturer? What is your engineering background? Have you worked for other fly fishing companies in the past? These are the kinds of questions that most people will have about a new product, and it’s the kind of thing you might want to address in your marketing.
Zach
” He’s not speculating. He’s one of the two or three most knowledgeable people about fly lines on the planet”
As I am sure he is very knowledgeable about fly lines, he is speculating as he has never fished nor seen the fly line we are selling. I am sure he can take a look at the line and know its quality right away, until he does that then it is speculation.
SA makes great lines, “however with hard use fly lines (no matter what brand) will need replaced… You can get two years out of a $90 fly line or two years out of a $20 fly line. One making you mend better? Not sure about that. Not sure I would ever try to claim to one of my customers a line is going to make them cast farther or mend better either but we know people eat that right up.
I have taken the time out of my day to respond to everyone’s questions in order. I am not sure why you keep saying “answer questions.” I have a ton of posts quoting and answering everyone in order. You can jump back through the pages in the thread to see that.
As for a review you say you write unbiased reviews and do not judge products until you fish them but the first thing you said in this thread was “Phil, no lie, for that price they have to be terrible.” SA has some very friendly priced fly lines. $27.00… This is from a company with a well known name and quality line. Now would you say the $27 line is junk from SA? I mean its only $7 more. Really why would SA sell a line for $27.00? Because they can. They are still making a profit on their cheaper lines. What are you really paying for in their upper end lines?
I will be done posting now if anyone has questions email me.
Thanks for letting me to continue to post Zach! You have a very good community of passionate fly fisherman here that’s forsure!
I’m interested to see the taper profile of your lines, Mike. The taper is far more important to most people than colour. As you know, the taper is what makes the line perform on the water and the mass of the line is what carries the fly. I’m also interested in the stiffness of the line. Are they suitable for tropical use in saltwater? Or just for temperate use in freshwater?
BTW, I’m not being critical, just telling you what makes me make a decision on which line to buy. I’ll bet a bunch of folks here would do the same. Price isn’t a consideration for me.
Something like this would be handy:
Attachments:
Best Regards,
Beechy
Chris, thanks for the post!
I am such a liar seems like I will not stop posting lol.
I am working on getting the taper chart up. Check the site periodically in the next few days! Its a lot of work coloring the lines and getting them out super fast/keeping up with emails. I was lucky enough to find time to get the grain ratings weighed out. Working on this next may take a bit.
The lines float nice and are supple. I am not sure they would be the greatest salt lines if you prefer a stiffer line. I know guys like stiffer lines but I also know there are people who feel there is no need. I dug this quote up I read a while back on a random site. I have no opinion on the matter, I tend to try to not be so critical and just worry about how it actually performs while I am fishing. If I can cast the line well ( no line has ever made a difference in my casting to be honest), it floats, lasts a decent while, and is a good fair price then I consider it a good line.
“I primarily fish salt water in fairly windy conditions. I prefer supple fly lines which are easier to manage while wade fishing or kayak fishing. I do not understand any need for ,or the casting advantages of, “stiff” lines.
If you hang a length of wire and an equal length of string between two posts — they will sag the same.
It seems to me that the stiffness craze grew out of marketing, or as a novice caster confidence builder — not from the realities of casting.” – QUOTE TAKEN FROM ANOTHER FLY FISHERMANI have no opinion on the quote above. It is just something to think about. I can tell you the fly fishing world is flooded with performance gimmicks. A lot of anglers would rather spend a decade finding the perfect “make me fish better product” then actually go out and learn the most important aspects of fly fishing. We have never mentioned anything about the color of the line doing anything for anyone, I myself do not believe “a clear fly line offers stealth advantages. I just watched a video of an Airflo transparent line the other day and the fisherman was saying how important it is in situations to have transparent fishing line…. ehh, if you worry about the size of your tippet, you do not think they would be able to see a transparent fly line the equivalent of 0000X hitting the water?” I catch trout in muddy water on size 20 caddis emergers. You think they can not see your fly line/tippet? I stopped using super light tippet nymph fishing a few years ago. It had no effect on how many fish I caught but saved me flies. It may be different for other fisherman though but not around here. Just some things to think about.
The salt should not effect the line to much. I have not had time to fish these lines in salt conditions. I do not do much salt water fishing as it is. Would love for someone to give these a beating in the salt! We actually add a type of salt into the coloring process and it does not effect the line but I guess extended Sea Salt abuse could have an effect.
Thanks
Maybe the words shadowflyfish should have noticed in Chris’s post were tropical and temperate. Less on salt and fresh as far as stiffness goes.
The string vs wire comparison is also bizarre along with the rest of that quote. I know, shadow has no opinion on the quote.
I do wonder about the tippet vs 0000# line hitting the water comment. I think you almost always have to lead the fish for this reason and not hit the fish with the line (line the fish). I also believe the appearance of a clear line 9′ or 12 to 14′ away at the fat end of a leader, is not the same as it would appear at the fishes nose. Clear lines sometimes do matter.
I still say I don’t mean to be harsh. I just see more red flags.
Maybe the words shadowflyfish should have noticed in Chris’s post were tropical and temperate. Less on salt and fresh as far as stiffness goes.
The string vs wire comparison is also bizarre along with the rest of that quote. I know, shadow has no opinion on the quote.
I do wonder about the tippet vs 0000# line hitting the water comment. I think you almost always have to lead the fish for this reason and not hit the fish with the line (line the fish). I also believe the appearance of a clear line 9′ or 12 to 14′ away at the fat end of a leader, is not the same as it would appear at the fishes nose. Clear lines sometimes do matter.
I still say I don’t mean to be harsh. I just see more red flags.
Red flags? Just because my opinions are different than yours on technique should not throw up any “red flags” about product quality. I agree leading to the fish nymph fishing and dry fly fishing is important and is actually my biggest thing. A clean drift catches fish. However if you are throwing streamers odds are you are casting on top of schools of fish and we all know how effective streamer fishing can be from time to time. I myself (again “my opinion” I respect yours) is that the weight of the line hitting the water would be thing scaring the fish if anything at all not color.
I respect your opinion that clear line does matter but I have never had issues with any color of fly line scaring fish so I have to disagree.
Everyone has their own opinions on technique, mine work for me, and im sure yours work for you.
I don’t think it’s the difference of opinion that is causing us to butt heads, it’s the total reeducation you are giving me (I’ll speak for myself) on fly lines.
Are any of the “improvements” in fly lines over the last 20 or so years real or are they just marketing gimmicks? Is it just a marketing ploy that all lines are not the same stiffness, do not have the same texture, coatings and so on that they had then? Since you say much of this is just marketing, do your lines save us money by doing away with these?
I do have one opinion though that is nothing but opinion, as far as color, all lines could be light, dark, or clear as far as my use.
Out of respect to you and others on the site the last word is yours, I’m checking out.
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