[John Bennett]

/sigh #2

1) It’s not about right or wrong Dave. Do note, it was you that said I was wrong about near everything. In my world or the real world I would expect anyone to say “really”? In other words it doesn’t me, that you feel I’m wrong about everything. You like Sups, your really happy, see Pros. Far be it for me to ell you your wrong. I do think when a person is told they are wrong, they are entitled to explain reasoning, “defend” their take. Kind of how life works.

It does seem as though your quite bothered to have the assertion questioned, “challenged” in a non confrontational manner, polite, logical manner.

2) when you have to resort to insults rather than….whose trolling?

3) Zach writes for American Angler, this article published in AA is directed at who???? That would be AA readers.Oh yeah, the broader market. Hundreds of thousands of readers who fish for all kinds of things, in all kinds of ways, in all kinds of waters, conditions, and yes including climates. Northern climes? I have to believe SuPs are getting stowed once temps dip. Short season vs long season from ice out to ice in.
The gist of this article is focusing on the benefits of Stand up/Sight fishing and the various PW that can allow you to take advantage of that specific style.

Two little innocuous comments about why they may never have the same appeal for the broader market.

Look in the mirror Dave.

[John Bennett]

Mike I don’t and have no intentions of disputing that there won’t be situations, applications specific to a) water bodies and b) individuals ( I have a bum shoulder, no way, no how I could paddle a sup for 8 hours, others might have bums knees). Aka devil details. Up river against a current? I might very well want a SuP (less water resistance).

With respect to peddle yaks. I’ve been on the water constantly fishing covering a lot of water for unto 8 hours. No harder on my body than a nice easy leisurely stroll in the park. Ive felt worse after 8 hours in a lazy boy :). And as Zak said you can really get them moving if you want to go a long distance A) to B) or ICE (incase of emergency). A Sup “might” beat in a very short sprint. I guarantee I can keep the pace longer….a lot longer hence my “2%” of the time comment. And if we want to fish at B say some shoal waaay out there…I can troll on the way 😉

ps Pas have scupper holes, you can easily carry a wheeled cart and roll your yak over portages
😉 Again, in no way shape or form does that make them “better”. If I did a lot of surf fishing Id probably lean to say a Revo, it cuts through surf better than a PA ever will. if I did a lot of river fishing, maybe a sup or toon, etc, etc, etc. A lot of ocean guys do though “prefer” them, once through the surf, stability, blah blah.

All I was trying to point out, is that for the broad market sups won’t likely get the love that some other types do. For those 2 reasons. Fishing Yaks and canoes are designed for fishing and as such will have inherent “Pros”. For me, the two big ones are cargo and that 2%…Ive been in hairy situations (things happen) and I always want to tell the tale.

I can easily go water fowling in my PA and hope to this fall when its near zero, falling in could mean not making it home to tell the tale. Not sure Id want to duck hunt off a SuP. But then again thats “me”, the next guy might have other applications where things matter more….or they matter less.Either way once the temps dip to zero, id likely be storing a SuP, a PA or SiK id probably keep fishing.

Zach re the PA. First understand there are “cons” with them.
Bow and 6 rod tubes plus front hatch..Its large, large enough for a lot of equipment. for me accessible cameras
Drive assembly is removable and I to always have my yak paddle (ice).

Smelling the roses, can keep that up all day.

give you an idea of the size. It’s a beast that can be both a Pro and Con. Stability is not something I worry about at all.

If anyone ever finds the perfect PW, please let me know
🙂

[John Bennett]

/sigh.
Lets back up a minute, Dave. You were wondering why SUPs aren’t as popular as other PW (Personal Watercraft). I suggested that any PW there are always tradeoffs..or for other words “pros/cons”. For me the two with SUPs that would matter are a) Storage/Cargo capacity and b) that 2% of the time, aka when something goes wrong. If you want the best PW I suggest you go out buy one of everything. Not sure about you but I personally don’t want to spend that much, nor do I have room for 1 of everything. There are devil details where a person might want a toon instead of a SUP and vise versa

You fired back I was wrong on everything. No problem here, everyones entitled to an opinion. So who trolling?

Yeah they work for stand up fishing, in some situations they will “outperform”, in some they will under perform.

I can’t speak for everyone but me I love all kinds of fishing. Sight fishing for X, trolling for Y.
Sometimes I fish small lakes, sometimes my point A to point B is quite long and tiring no matter what your in..And thats only A to B, not A to B and back again.

So why don’t they get the ‘respect”. Likely see above.

To answer a couple of your questions.
Can I car top it? Yes, quite easily. I have a bum shoulder from an old football injury, while that ultimately led to me getting a trailer as well. Its not hard car topping it.That said, relative to some other choices that can be a con. I do seem to recall saying that they to, have their “Cons”..Goes backs, double checks and sees that yes I did say that.

Stability?
I have been canoeing since I was 4 years old. I have never, repeat never gone for a swim. ( 1 occasion when a friend spilled it). In short I am ver comfortable. It blows any canoe away for stability.
Thats a “Pro”.

As stable as a SUP? hard to say, Id say yes, especially for a person who may not be comfortable in any waters, nor a person who has lots of experience.Looks around at people in general..Not everyone is comfortable or capable..

Do note theres more camera gear at risk on the back deck, and in the front storage hatch, than the combined prices of my PA, your SUP, and many more.
Not worried about it at all.

Id let my 13 year old child take it out in big waters, would you let you child get out of sight on a SUP?

In fact I can sit on that raised seat and while I may not be standing Im still elevated. I can “peddle” along at a sustained rate, for ever. Ive felt worse getting out of a canoe after 4 hours sitting/paddling.Hows the small of your back after 6 hours standing/paddling in a SUP? I know guys whose backs can’t take standing for 6 hours casting in a bass boat…let alone…..

There are always tradeoffs with PW, there is no do it all do it all better than any other.
Most guys I know of anyways like more than just fishing one way, or one type of water, or one specific set of

devil details
hence why they will never be as popular as PW designed for fishing

[John Bennett]

Mike “devil” details. 🙂 theres no way, to account for every possible situation where one craft, will outperform the other.

If you want to debate the ability to go further/faster in X, Y or Z.
If your trying to convince me a single paddle powered by the upper body without a whole lot of leverage will outperform Legs and lower back…all else equal…good luck, we are going to have to disagree. Or look at what Olympians can bench vs what they can lift with the legs/lower back.

If your trying to convince me a single paddle powered by the upper body will outperform a yak that gets double the pleasure and covers the same distance for half the force…As I said earlier, 98% of the time this may be a non issue. Its the other 2% of the time (when push comes to shove). 🙂 Ive been on the water with SuPs and ive left in my dust everytime. What if were “racing” at the end of a day when we are a little fatigued, theres a nasty storm and we are going into the wind.Standing up vs low to the water and less wind resistance?

Or if point A to B is long. Theres no way “all else equal”. yeah we can both get there. I know who is going to exert more energy.

Zach, a agree. I grew up in canoes and love them to but like anything there are Pros/Cons.
I have no knocks against paddle boards, think they are very cool and viable options.Fishing platforms, heck yes they can be used for it, devil details…..

Hows the trolling in a SuP?

edit add.
Its not about one being better. I was glad to see Zach included them in the article. But they may never get the wide acceptance due to their …searches for right words…and gives up
🙂

[John Bennett]

I just got back from an assigment last week, anything I think or suspect might get used is under wraps until next year. Most of what I can play with and display are “rejects”. That said I may have two new fav’s for this year.

[John Bennett]

Really like that first one Brett, its different from so many fishing shots. The treatment you used as well. Need to let that percolate a little, but it certainly grabbed the eye. Also really like the way you treated the sun flare in the last.

[John Bennett]

Not sure if I worded it poorly, or it kind of got lost in the translation.

Dave I’ve been out on the water with and around SuPs, I could and can “swim” circles around them all day long.. All Im going to say is that if/when push ever comes to shove, I can go further/faster in my hobie, pretty much any yak, possibly/probably true with canoes as well (not really sure here though).If push really comes to shove and I break a leg and you break an arm, or we both seize up, pull a muscle, suffer heat exhaustion, dehydration whatever….I like my chances better. If the opposite were true, bicylces would be powered by hand. The only craft a SuPer can go further/faster is if/when I was in a pontoon. While we dont have the deep blue, or surf fishing many places do, going out into the Great Lakes (Lake O) for Salmon is very popular. Willing to bet if we both had to cover say 5-10 miles “round” trip and assuming we both departed/arrived same time. And assuming equal fitness levels. you will be more tired than I..especially if we’ve been tossing 10 weights for the past 4-6 hours.I wouldnt want to left behind with a bad storm blowing in…<<<None of that says, or suggest they arent good options for fishing platforms, they to, like most others have “Cons”.

My PA.
Easily holds 6 rods in their built in holders horizontal storage tubes and thats before mods for rocket tubes behind me (2 factory installed). On top of that I can add coolers, live wells, more gear than I can shake a stick at. Nor do I have to worry about the deck getting washed or wet. Again, not neccessarily is that “better”, its a “pro”, especially if we simply speaking situations that arent specific (devil details).

So my “point” was if you will, that SuPs are good options. If I only wanted something to fish say the Bay of Quinte ( thinks flats fishing) for Gar Pike, Bass, etc. And I really wasnt concerned about point A to point B travel, nor how fast I might need to get to shore if a storm blew in, nor did I ever want to troll for Salmon, or Tuna or other, nor would I like the luxory of carrying 4 rods, and tackle, plus camera equipment, or camping equip. As an all “purpose” fishing platform….

Hence, while they are good options for stand up/sight fishing and I feel Zach was right to include them, they arent “really” arent designed as fishing platforms, they are made or used as such by “some” hence they may never get the “love”/respect”.

[John Bennett]

Nice article Zach.

When it comes to personal watercraft, having owned and tried a variation of basically them all, there is no one craft, that is ‘great” in every application, instead they all have trade offs, that can be debated or looked upon, as “Pros/Cons”. With respect to SUPs, (something I haven’t bought/owned) I personally see two very large downsides to them as fishing platforms.

The first is storage and cargo capacity, there is none. The second is more subjective and dependant on devil details. “Ideally” they are designed to be stood on, paddled while standing and that may be fine 98% of the time. Its the 2%, incase of emergency that “concerns” me. Whether its due to an injury that occurs on the water, and the shore is a long, long way off, or becoming tired from standing paddling/fishing and then having to race for shore.

Guess what I’m driving at, is that I think as pleasure craft, they are great and can be used as fishing platforms with some added stability for standing, it’s not a “strength” nor a “design” intention.

I bought a Hobie Pro Angler this year, as a personal watercraft fishing platform, it surpasses anything I’ve ever owned. Redicously stable, Id have to try to turtle it, before I’ll go swimming. Its stable enough I have no qualms standing and casting, sight fishing, all while I leave small fortunes in camera gear open and exposed on the deck.

It to, has it cons.

[John Bennett]

Thanks guys.

David, we are discussing Sitka Gear

http://www.sitkagear.com

Think technical clothing like Simms, Patagonia, Merril, Columbia, Under Armor, thats been marketed to consumers for various outdoor activities from sailing to mountain climbing years meets hunting.

These days, more hunting manufacturers are getting on board and offering similar products. Barretta, Under Armor etc. It’s not cheap (lol, yeah thanks Brett) although strangely enough I’ve found that some pieces are on par or cheaper than the same piece, offered by a non hunting manufacturer.

With respect to the technical aspects, and layering aspects it works. I’ve spent a ton of good money over the years on stuff that didn’t. So false economy there, yeah the “other” stuff is cheaper, but does it do what I want/need?

With respect to design ( cut, fit, zippers,pockets). Its superb, the pieces are well thought out. Pockets where you want them, zippers, and when you layer pieces, they are designed to mesh and fit with their other pieces, so you don’t get the pinching or gathering of material, you commonly get with mismatched pieces.

With respect to durability. At least this far, Ive yet to have a seam blow, a zipper bust, stitching come loose, nor have I worn through material in high wear area’s such s knees, elbows, seats, nada. I can’t even begin to guess how many hours, how many miles I’ve humped, bushwhacked, gone fishing, hiking and logged in my mountain set, and other than being just a little faded, its much as it was the day I opened the box. A first for me with respect to compatible pieces Ive bought and abused over the years.

They now have 3 lines. I have sets from all 3.
~Mountain: Is really designed and better suited for the person that active. Bush whacking, mountain hunting, etc where exertion generates body heat. Products that were designed with the West Coast geology/climate in mind

~Forest: Is geared more towards the Eastern Whitetail hunters, where you commonly sit in elevated tree stands for long durations, so the pieces tend be heavier, with more insulation and the climate tends to be damper

~Waterfowl. Where you largely sit still in stiff biting winds and the elements can get nasty. Ive picked up a few pieces of this now, with the main ones being their Patanal ( A goretex shell) and now their Boreal ( 600 fill power down and goretex). I’ll have a better feel for it after this Waterfowl season. Can say, on the day I went Crow hunting above it was roughly -5c, light wind. I wore a base layer, a core shirt, the primaloft jacket and the Patanal shell (it has some micro fleece insulation). In all we sat for about 4 hours, starting before sunrise and wrapping up around 11am. I was more than comfortable throughout.

 

 

[John Bennett]

You get used to the weight Mike.

You will come to appreciate the option of having the faster glass. So somedays depending on your time/target and light conditions, you grab the f2.8, leave the 400 at home. Other days you grab the 400 and leave the f2.8 at home. Then one day the road, you think it will be a good idea to have a second body..One for the shorter faster lens, one for the longer, lighter lens and lug both

🙂

 

[John Bennett]

Everything is from different parts of Ontario…and now the obligatory shill/pump…:).If any of you ever get a chance to come here fishing or hunting, take it, don’t think twice, it’s god’s country. Think about this, Ontario is over 1 million square miles, in some cases 6-10 times the size of many States, yet has a population of just around 7million. You can fit many states into that, and have just a fraction of the population density.

That my Browning White Gold BLR in .308. I know theres a craze toward synthetics, especially in black camp wrapped stuff but I will remain a sucker for the classics and woods 🙂

Sitka. Actually it was Brett (thanks Brett) that convinced me to start using their product. I have now pretty much replaced every article of outdoor gear I owned. Still a fan of some makers like Merril, columbia etc, but…….It (Sitka) just works and is really durable, Im very hard on most of the stuff I’ve acquired. I wear different pieces, all year long, for hunting, fishing, photography, camping……That bear track is a prime example. We started at first light, about 6 of us, everyone was wearing hunting gear appropriate for time, temps, conditions. Just after sunrise, early on the trail, it was frosty at the outset.

I was wearing that set (had a core shirt under the soft shell). Acording to the GPS units we covered a little under 3 miles in 4 hours, so when we gave up the ghost it was 11am and getting hot. All the other guys were sweating buckets and very uncomfortable. Me I was fine, the core wicked my sweat and I simply vented, I could have easily kept going.

Forest line. Im not over the top crazy about the greens myself, think I like you would prefer it was a little more muted. Typcial habitat here and Nov climate, to me the greens are like you said too bright.

But the pieces work wonders. Couple days during that Dec hunt, it was -18. I wore a base layer (Merino), core shirt, their kelvin pants/jacket (Primaloft) and then the fanatic as my outer. Two mile hike through rough terrain into the stand and 2 more back out, plus on average 3.5 hour sits.More than comfortable.

Their waterfowl line is exciting me. I have a couple pieces,I may actually start using it more for big game, just due to the more natural browns and earth tones.

We spend inordinate amount of time in the elements. Have all kinds of great gear, be it Rods, reels, boats. No hardware does anyone any good if/when we stay home because its nasty out, or go home early because we are cold/wet. Pound for pound, our wear is to me, the most important stuff. For durability, design and function, there aren’t many (imo) that stack up well against it. Have it, use it, highly recommend it..although not its sticker 🙁

 

[John Bennett]

Thanks David. Man I wish you lived in Canada, id be picking your brains and pestering you to take me out as an assistant 🙂 I don’t know if the same is occurring elsewhere in the world (have to believe it is) but here anyways there’s a big shift occurring with respect to what ADs and the bigger/better stock agencies want to see. My guess is, it’s a natural reaction to the saturation of the photography market. My AD for example doesn’t want to see “grip and grins”, he is even expressly telling writers not to shoot so many.  I will be co presenting a “seminar” of sorts with him at a workshop, in essence trying to boost the signal to noise ratio for the writers.

In the past year, I am getting more hunting related “business”. In part again, because fishing photography is “easy”..Meaning carry a camera, takes pictures, its easier for writers to supply their own material. Not so easy when hunting.

Oddly, that has forced me to rethink my accessories, try to get creative with lighting, manufacture a practical and workable “on location” one man studio. It’s funny, some of my early inspiration came from images I remember you posting from outdoor shoots. So far, its been a lot of trial and error.

Its also forcing me to think of ways of be “different” and get “different” kinds of images, hence for me anyways a heavy bias towards remote speed lighting and remote cameras.

[John Bennett]

Mike, I pretty much have a CP glued to all my lenses all the time, (even have a Circ Pol for my Go Pro) with the exception being Wildlife (will mount one occasionally), so yeah, if I decide to employ an ND, chances are its stacked with 1 or more other filters.

Here I used  a warming CP, a 2 stop Grad ND and two speed lights

Here, a grad ND and a Gold CP in order to make the glare on the windshield gold

I don’t always use NDs as most of that can be replicated in post, however when I do use them, it’s a safe bet they are being stacked with a CP of one stripe or another

 

[John Bennett]

Land locked Rainbow Zach, the other on the table is a Laker. We were on a fly in to a remote Northern Lake, neither Dale or I had ever come across flesh that color. Can only guess their diet is heavy on fresh water shrimp.

[John Bennett]

Very nice Mike 🙂

[John Bennett]

For striking colour I have to go with this Speck

And these carotene rich fillets

[John Bennett]

Different ways to skin the same cat Zach. 🙂 and everyone’s needs are slightly different. I held off buying a super WA as long as I could, but once I found myself being out in boats more and more, it became a necessity. Im reasonably confident if I studied all my fishing photos the majority (50%-75%) of them will be somewhere between 20mm and 40mm. The balance would be split between the long (over 50mm) and short (under 20mm) ends.Im currently giving a lot of thought to the 35mm f1.4 L…then I shake my head and remind myself of my bank statement

Just a thought, if you haven’t or don’t already. 18mm is as I mentioned the threshold to avoid some vignetting on the FF and that’s with a thin Signh Ray.

[John Bennett]

Under must have.
~Filters, none more important than your choice of Circ Pols.
~Always have at least one speed light. I’d like to carry four, but size and weight of bag. So if it’s just me out for a day, I usually stick to one, if assignment I pack the kitchen sink.

Under handy to have
~Set of Kenko tubes. Find Im using these more and more, especially with the 70-200mm
~Heavy duty Gorilla pod. Its a beast, I’ve put 16pounds on it and it held.I use it as a pod in a pinch, but most often as a remote speed light stand, or remote camera stand attached to whatever is available.
~Think Tank bags. Im a spend where you have to, save where you can kind. So while Id love to replace all my bags, with more Think Tank products, instead I have just handful
~Will echo Brett with respect to Eneloop Batteries
~Manfrotto magic arm. Like the Gorilla pod, it’s just way to handy and versatile as a remote light stand or remote camera platform

Under cool to have with, don’t use a lot but when I do Im glad I have
~My Oly EPL 3 and my Go pro.

[John Bennett]

Grats Zach, the first is always special. 🙂
No idea why you feel as though you can’t, or shouldn’t share things that get published.

I know those of us who have felt the pressure to produce will understand that.

It can take the fun away from it and then some.

Frame it (the issue, not just a tear sheet) and hang it.

[John Bennett]

If it’s not too late, I think you need to be specific Zach. I don’t look at those as being walk around lenses.
My typical fishing kit I’ll pack
16-35mm
24-70mm
70-200mm

By far and I do mean by far, my workhorse is the 24-70. It’s wide enough for pretty much anything but grip and grins when the option to step back isn’t there (tin cans). If shooting a fish portrait, I go right to 70mm and open the lens wide F2.8, which allows for shallow DoF and good isolation. If I happen to be across river, 70mm while a little short at times gets the job done. Basically this one lens covers almost anything I might want, from WA scenics, anglers in action/portraits to giving me the option of getting in tight, zooming in and opening the lens to f2.8.

The 16-35mm I’ll mount when I have big skies, and am shooting a scenic, however on the FF Dx, I have to watch for vignetting and typically shoot around 18mm. When I’m forced to mount it for fish (aka in a tin can) I do so reluctantly. I detest, no I loathe distorted fish shots, which is evdident even when you tell the angler to hold it in tight and not thrust it at the camera. Mounting a super WA is a rock meeting a hard place when shooting fish. Yeah you gain a little real estate, but the price…no thanks.

To me anyways, the best all purpose fishing lens is something between 20mm and 70mm. I’d hazard a guess 90% of my fishing photography is done somewhere in there.

[Author]

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