brian primeau
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What I meant Carter were that none of the “wading jackets” under $500 Cdn.were made of Goretex. (Not that none of the jackets are made of it.)
I do stand corrected the G3 Jacket it’s $475Cdn+ tax….<$500?? :) Yes the Pak Lite is Goretex. That is why I mentioned it. Not being a “Wading Jacket” Being a ultralight rain jacket is still $335. It’s Hard to put $300+ into a jacket that spends all it’s time in the backpack. I owned a Pac lite suit (till all my stuff got Stolen from my car) and it is the best Light jacket I’ve ever owned. Just expensive is all. Made in China and still damn expensive. I have not had any issues with my zippers though but I do recall my old Waxed Cotton jacket had metal zippers and in the dead of winter it occasionally froze up and you couldn’t get it off.Salt water guys got it made – nice pair of sandles, a Buff and shades = good to go! ;D Sweet.
Waders for 5 years?…maybe, 10 years may be a stretch unless they make one that expands as we all get old and fat. ::)
300 – 400 days is likely reasonable then you can have them as many years as you like. I get two years.
So think of it as $2.00 per day.Josh I can’t think of a Simms Jacket under $500 that I would wear. None are Gore Tex. Even the Pak Lite is over $300 (I’m talking Cdn$$)
Still keep wearing them though.
Their boots are fantastic – best thing since Weinbrenners!
Their first Guide Jacket was Made in Canada, then US then they shipped it off to China. I don’t think they ever sold it under $400 even after the move to China, and in the process it lost an inside pocket and a zinger. The material in a jacket is half as tough and not as many layers as the waders but still command over $400??
I live with it because they are still innovative, I know I can get 5 years out of a jacket and 14,000 Kilometers away from home in the driving rain and wind – THEY WORK.
More likely that their margins on jackets help out with the rest of the business. It all goes into the same pot.I sincerely hope that Chinese jackets are not just a test run for the rest of the line…..If they don’t support US….or us, then I’ll bail – truly.
Steve, though Camera manufacturers or any other electronic manufacturers do the same thing, it is quite easy to see and to evaluate whether the advanced features of a new DSLR model are worth the price to stay current, or whether an Iphone 4 vs Iphone 4s $ outlay is worth the extended features.
You can actually quantify the new features. The problem with fishing rods is that every manufacturer seems to have the latest and the greatest then every year or two the model is replaced. In 5 years you wont recognize any of them. They generally push the techno crap behind the rod and forget what the rod is designed to do.
I like advancements to current models – I hate the discontinuance of a worthy taper or series which is replaced by maketting babble and techno speek!
Here is an example from a leading rod company –
“where precision casting accuracy is needed over a wide range of conditions. Hand crafted from our ******* technology three long years in the making, the *** rod is a game changer. Your game. Its fast action incorporates a built in sweet spot, making the *** rod the ideal choice for experienced and aspiring casters alike.”And another, same company different model –
“With ultra high line speed and a slender shaft design that reduces overall weight, each rod in this series is consistently smooth and responsive. Great for beginning and experienced anglers alike, the *** is designed with more high modulus materials resulting in a lighter rod with a slender shaft design.”
Then it goes on to list the great cork and fine wraps etc.
What is that ?- how do I sell that?
How do you quantify whether to buy rod A or rod B?I’m not saying that rod manufacture is not moving forward, there is some great stuff out there. Everything in our economy is driven in the same way.
One of my Prostaffers asked me once – “Why would I ever need to buy a $700 fly rod when my $249 model works fine”
My answer was this –
A good angler can catch a fish on a willow twig. But sooner or later you will come against a technical issue that your equipment can’t overcome – that is when you may need a $700 rod.
A few months later he presented me with an issue – Holdover Rainbows 5-6lbs average in water too deep to wade 50+ feet out taking cahills.
His rod could cast that far but was too stiff to set the hook on 5X at that distance without breaking off or when he held back so as not to break off on the hookset he missed the fish often.
My suggestion was a Scott S4 905-4.Listen to Scott’s explanation of the rod – It will also illustrate why I use and recommend Scott rods –
“The S4 handles a wide range of fly sizes with plenty of power and line speed, balanced with enough sensitivity to fish the small bugs on light tippet.”
And it does exactly that. That model will always do that no matter what technology is behind it, I just have to decide whether it’s time to change.
I don’t care crap about scrim, nano resin and how their hoop strength is achieved. I care what the rod is designed to accomplish.Here’s their G2 –
“If you stalk big, wary trout with tiny flies, long leaders and light tippet, look no further for the perfect fishing tool.”
That is exaclty what I like to do – I can toss 7 or 8x and hit hard and land a big fish. I can put it in my client’s hand and let him do the Bob Izumi hookset and not break off the fish! That is important to me.The S rods bend at the butt for forgiveness at the long end. G rods bend at the tip so as to forgive close in and don’t proport to do all things nor cast all sizes not are for all levels of anglers. Price will likely dictate that.
Sure they make some technical changes every few years as the technology pushes forward but the G rods will always do G stuff and the S rods will always do S stuff.
If one of these old G guys wants to get current some day – they will have a good idea of what to expect. Meanwhile their G rods will have high resale value because the series is still current and understandable.
P.S. the prostaffer bought the S4 and loves it. It solved his problem.
* Note
This wasn’t intended to be a Scott Commercial – it just made a handy illustration. I no longer work retail and have no relation to Scott other than as a loyal customer. (As long as they keep it real) ;DI haven’t been enthusiastic about much from Sage since the LL and SP.
Scott seems to have a better philosophy when they make changes, slow and deliberate.
Many of these companys just keep pumping models out every year to turn stock by making models seem obsolete. They must have to every few years at least or folks would lose interest.
Nice thing is though that a used rod of high quality can be had for a song compared to a current model.Are the uppers made of Neoprene? If so do they ferment your feet so that you have to leave them outdoors?
I have a friend who goes to Andros every year.
Budget and Andros is an oxymoron to the best of my knowledge.
The bones are HUGE though.Stay at Spindrift $53 to $150 per night. Eat at the local restaraunts or in the streets.
Book a guide at Ruby’s. Ruby’s can book you for anything. Mayan ruins etc. Ruby’s is the center of the universe there.
Guides are $200 half day $300 full day – Bones or Tarpon.
You can book a room at Ruby’s as well for cheap but I can’t vouch for staying there.
It was a long time ago but I sent a client there a few years ago and had a great time. Somebody lent him a canoe and he had the time of his life!
San Pedro is tiny but one of the safest places I have ever been. Not at all the same on the mainland though!
Don’t wander about in Belize City after dark.
Your direct flight will likely take you to Belize City and then you can jump onto a boat that takes you to Ambergris in about 20 minutes.
Not a great place for beaches though – maybe 20 yards from the hotels to the water but water sports – snorkelling, diving glass bottom boats etc are great.
Not a high end trip but a memorable one.
You can’t compare it to El Pesadore or Joyrney’s End. They are in the $3k per week region guided.
Not sure about walk and wade but going that far you want a guide, at least for the first day.
EnjoyZach it was a better deal when they first introduced it. I got a client into a Vanquish on that deal but they smartly closed that door.
Otherwise I’d be hunting down every LP on the planet and trading them in.
If you took apart an LP and then a new Lamson (any model) you’d see the truth in their video about reducing parts and weight – backward compatability etc.A few years ago they had a great deal on a new reel with an old spool so there are some mismatched reels out there that are factory but were much cheaper because of the old spools going into the new frames.
Scott, the hard alox worth it if you drop one! They don’t scratch easily.
I used to work in a shop and it was really hard to sell around the lesser priced reels with the same guts.
Heres is the choice – A reel with the same capacity, drag and close asthetics and a spare spool vs a similar one with a tough finish for the same price but only one spool?For me I admit that buying a new reel is 60% reliability, 20% esthetics and 20% weight.(Light)
However when it comes to the Litespeed there is more than just the HAlox coating to consider.
The Litespeed is a large arbour (With a “U”) – the Guru is mid.
I think I already mentioned the pros of the Litespeed previously.I used that reel guiding for steelies for three years and loved it. I would still own a Litespeed if not for the Vanquish but I would not own a Guru cuz it’s butt ugly. IMHO
I think Lamson would forgive me for saying that cuz I own 2. ULA Force 2 and 2x spool + the Vanquish.
Any reel is a great reel until it breaks and you have to deal with the company. That is where the rubber meets the road.Scott, great story. I am LMAO right now.
Always nice when the GF comes up with the idea.Funny thing – perhaps 15 years ago my wife asked me “How do you feel about going on a Christmas trip with two of my sisters and I?”
“Where?” I asked“Some island named Belize” She replied.
I was dead pan. “Well, ya that might be fun, I think there is some fishing there”
So there you go. It was my fist time Bonefishing – Stayed on Ambergris in San Pedro. The girls did the Mayan Ruins on the mainland and I fished for a few days.
I can still taste the Hotdogs with Carmelized onions on the main drag at Midnight Christmas eve!Spin Drift was $75 per night. Ruby’s was $35…still is!
My guide ran over a school of Permit between flats, but for $150 who can complain? Nice times – thanks for reminding me and sharing your trip.
I can’t wait for the missus to suggest Venezuela! She knows about Andros, Eleuthera and a few others but Venezuela is still under the radar.
;DNice that you can share water with the wife.
What could be better?
She fished when we dated…then something happened?
Just sayin… ;DHey John, nice gig. Saw your pics in OOD as usual.
Steelies are up the BH. If it stops raining Sunday should be good…. 😉
You in?Also worth mentioning, Lamson has a trade up program for old LP reels.
Fill in a form, send in the reel and get a Velocity, Guru or Konic at 50% off.
All their other stuff is backward compatible with spools except the original LP. This takes care of that issue. I think they know that this replacement will also take care of 90% of repairs permanently.Zach, you are right on. There are three types of fly shops in my mind.
1) Fly guy who wants to own a shop because it’s a passion
2) Business person who finds fly fishing and has the skills to make it work or the smarts to not do it in the first place.
3) Person who wants to guide and knows the best way to be able to guide is to own a fly shop.Any of them can have success, any of them can fail. The best shops that I know of are run by #2 hiring the guys with the passion.
I would like to say something about the anglers though. This is only my perception having been fly fishing since “Pre Movie” and guiding for 8 years. and having worked in two fly shops.
The dudes and dudettes who are learning fly fishing today are passionate about the sport and spend much time getting the learning curve short. (Time on the water) They “get it” for the most part. They are mechanics, web designers, line workers, truck drivers, carpenters etc. Many would rather spend a Saturday night fishing until midnight than go drinking with their buddies. They might own a TFO and be perfectly happy with it or are saving up for a Scott that they will own for ten years or buy used.
What we saw during the time around “The Movie” was a bunch of Brie-eating posers wearing Orvis – (Did I say that out loud?) That fished for a season or two – got thier photos and hung their rods on the wall beside their dusty unused Gibson guitars.
These new guys with their underwear hanging out will actually spend time alone on the water without the fanfare.
I am always surprised when they say “What Movie?”
It is refreshing and for the most part, life on the rivers is civil.
They see it on commercials or in books and it looks …. you know.
And it is…you know.At the same time, the “Stuff” is less expensive and better quality. Back in the day it was Hardy, Orvis then Sage, Winston. Anything else for the most part was crap. Maybe that isn’t fair though, we just couldn’t find stuff nor research it. Martin and Fenwick did good job.
These folks are starting out with more info, the ability to research and get opinions with the click of a mouse and buy online if they like or visit bricks and mortar to test out a model. But most of all – these guys pay for lessons then buy their equipment afterward.
I must admit of late though that “The Movie” to them is getting to be their buddies with a digital movie or “GoPro” camera and posting on Utube – The Jury’s still out there, but it’s viral nature keeps the paycheck coming for the shop owners.
What did “Loop” say? “It’s not your grandfathers sport anymore.”
Now it’s an extreme sport. ::)Thanks again all for the kind words guys!
Zach there’s 1 spot left for week 2!So this last shot will put it all in perspective. This is an Iphone shot through my front window between appointments. I am on it several times every day! North America’s busiest highway, the 401 through Toronto.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401
15 yes Fifteen lanes and I am crawling from 0 to 40 KPH! :-/ Please stick a needle in my eye!
I saw more cars in 15 minutes than I saw in two weeks in Patagonia.Several years back two buddies and I went for a weekend to Roscoe NY to visit the ghosts of Wulff, Dette, Jorgensen et al…a bad accident on this highway that day had a lunch truck stopped and selling Pop and hot dogs right on that highway. It was 90+ degrees out and he was making a killing.
This is where I work. Abel’s out building looks appealing, fox pelts and all. ;DTim, that is very cool and some interesting theory as well Zach.
Andrew, here is your spike. It had less to do with one trout over another than fly fishing and trout vs say bass for example.
Cool tool Tim, thanks.
The “Movie” came out in 1992 but took a year for non fly folk to catch on.
They all sold their stuff 6 years 😀 later where the “natural” line would have been anyway.
Waterworks/Lamson builds great products.
As soon as had a demo Vanquish in my hand I ordered one because it is light, extremely smooth and tough.I not crazy about the look of the spool faces on most of their reels, including the Vanquish, but the back side of the Vanquish is sweet.
I also have the ULA F2 and there is nothing lighter. An issue with it though is that occasionally the line jumps over edge of the spool causing it to immediately lock up. It hasn’t cost me a fish yet…
The 3x spool takes it from a 4wt to a 6wt. This reel is not recommended for anyone needing backing though.Though I think the Konic is butt ugly it is by far their best seller because it is tough and inexpensive. I think it’s the best reel out there at that price point.
The Vanquish, ULA and Litespeed drag in allot of line per crank, and on the Vanquish and Litespeed you can take up all that slack line by just spinning the rim with your fingers (kind of like a center pinner.) the bearings on those two models are so smooth the reel will spin up all that line wiith one or two hits.
The width of their spools takes some getting used to (Vanquish, ULA and Litespeed) as the travel while spooling back the line is more than most fingers can reach when you try to level the line. That is the price to pay for such a large arbour and still get backing capacity.That new ULA SL is a SWEEET, smooth Sexy thing. I’d like to unload my ULA for that one! I can safely say that would be my last 4wt reel.(Well for graphite anyway – it just wouldn’t be right on bamboo) 😮
Thanks all.
The only trouble with the whole thing was that it left me in a funk for about 6 months. (after the first trip) I did not want to leave.
I don’t mean to sound so esoteric but meeting Abel had me bent up a bit.
It kind of made me rethink some of the BS I find so critical in my life.The absence of random trash, traffic gridlock, smog and population density of .97 per sq Km meant peace and quiet. Over the two weeks I was there we might have seen 4 other anglers.
Now that I know I can go back every year and the fact that my wife knows how it is for me there, I don’t get in the funk. Just look forward to getting back and letting my soul catch up with me.
Did I mention that I have the best wife ever?As I write this my buddy down there is buying a property on a lake full of browns. 😀 I can’t wait to see it.
Cheers
Jim, Abel is doing fine. We brought him canned food and some fruit and he invited us in for Mate (pronounced Matay). It was a priviledge that he let me use my camera inside his home. It’s the Patagon way to be hospitable to travellers.
Here is his home. Can you believe he owns 1200 hectares! You can’t help but respect a guy who can live like that. He will not sell his property. He could be a millionairre. Fox pelts were drying in the sun on the out building.
We walked down to his beach and wild browns swam by leisurely on the beach.
He owned several of these tiny goats, a couple cows, sheep and many chickens.
Abel let us fish his lake with our belly boats. We were only there for a couple hours. I lost a huge fish on my 2nd or 3rd cast and landed a good one while trolling the belly boat.
