Scott K.
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<cite> @ZachMatthews said:</cite>
What do you do with the birds while you have them at home or whatever? Feed them? Put them under a light?Zach
… I can only imagine the transport logistics. Dog + quail in a box + a confined space…?
<cite> @jay malyon said:</cite>
I forget how I found these but I stumbled across them while looking for a known manufacturers reels online.
Looks like they have pretty much every reel copied.
http://www.aliexpress.com/products/large-arbor-fly-reel.htmlWow. I am sure they are all turds too. I had a korean manufactured generic reel (Aurora Trillium) and it was terrible.
If they have a design so close to the other reels, they could have problems with a trade dress infringement claim.
I want the “Ant King.”
Just seeing this and posted something in the other thread.
In any case, the reverse engineering and flex profile matching is probably OK, for better or for worse. The only issue I see for these guys is they are using the Sage name to market the goods – that could lead to issues.
<cite> @michael phillippe said:</cite>
Chris, I understand your frustration but I wonder if anything can be done about it. Fly patterns have always been openly shared – first in books and now on the Internet. My son occasionally has patterned picked up by Montana Fly Company. I’m always amazed to see them in catalogs and in stores that do not buy from MFC. But how are you going to “protect” a Comparadun? No doubt Al Caucci would like to have a nickel for every one sold in the past twenty years.Equipment is an entirely different matter. The engineering and investment that people like Simms, Scott, and others put into product design, manufacturing, and just as importantly quality control should be protected. I hope Tenkara USA is success in their litagation.
I agree – equipment and flies are entirely different. Each raises its own set of legal issues.
First, flies. There is little legal protection that one can practically have for fly patterns. In general, useful portions of a design cannot be subject to copyright protection (copyright generally covers independently developed creative expressions – like writings, photographs, music scores, music lyrics, sound recordings, etc., NOT portions of a design that are useful – there has been a lot of bickering over this in the fashion industry). Instead, those functional portions of a pattern would be within the scope of patent protection – however, given the volumes and economics of fly tying, pursuing patent protection is probably not feasible. To boot, many patterns may not even be patentable since they would fail the nonobviousness and novelty tests.
End result is, there is no practical protection for fly patterns. One caveat is that if someone copies the actual text of a flypattern or your photograph of a fly , you would have a copyright claim against them, but you would need to make sure the copyright was registered to make sure you are in the best position possible.
Second, rods. Know that reverse-engineering a product itself does generally NOT give rise to civil or criminal action. By reverse-engineering, I mean buying a product, taking it apart and figuring out how to replicate it (for instance, with a fly rod, that would be buying a rod, sawing it in pieces and measuring thickness of the walls at various points, diameter of the rod, and determining (if possible) the modulus layup of the rod). If you can do that, you should be free to replicate and sell the rod. However, you would not be able to do that if the replicated rods you are selling embodied patents of the original manufacturer (that would be patent infringement). The reverse engineering process is basically what chipmakers used to duplicate Intel chips way back when.
That said, if individuals in the supply chain such as contract manufacturers misappropriate the designs, trade secrets or know-how, then big problems can arise for both the contract manufacturer and the end-seller of the goods. There are various theories of misappropriation, breach of contract, unfair competition, etc. that one could throw out there (perhaps effectively). In addition, if the sales of the goods also use the same name or mark (or a substantially similar name or mark), there can be claims for trademark infringement and dilution as well.
Of course, as Zach says, most of the overseas manufacturers operate outside of the US legal system and, even if you have a good contract that clearly restricts the manufacturer from using your information or data, it will be difficult to police, not to mention enforce.
OK folks. I’m a big proponent of fishing kayaks (see earlier posts above), but I think I’m going contarian – for me, a canoe fits the bill better. In fact, I’d venture to say that if you are doing most of your fishing on moving water, a canoe is likely a better option.
I’ve been fishing out of my Tarpon 120 for the past couple of years fishing the hooch for stripers, and have hit the river pretty hard. I really dig the Tarpon with the inflatable pontoons for stand-up fishing. I’ve fished in it in the salt and on lakes. It has proven extremely versatile.
I recently got a Mad River Legend 15, primarily because the wife and I do a fair amount of class 1 -2 whitewater with our kayaks, and sometimes want to take friends along and don’t want to deal with renting a boat. Plus, we’ve always wanted a canoe. The Legend is conventional canoe tweaked a bit for whitewater – it has a little bit of rocker to add maneuverability and and has a big bulky bow and stern to give it float coming down rapids. We had taken it out a couple of times to hit local rivers, and I really liked the boat.
In any case, I took it out fishing this weekend and today for stripers on a local river to to see how it would do, and it rocked – just a much more enjoyable flyfishing experience than a kayak.
Why? A lot of reasons – here is the breakdown.
Pros
– Very stable and can stand in it, cast, and be anchored in current no problem. This was surprising, but it seems that the royalex flexes a bit and adheres to the water nicely.
– Less fiddly. I’m not constantly putting on and taking off the outriggers.
– More space. Can carry anything. Plus, I can keep my coffee on the yoke, where it stays high and dry and, surprisingly, doesn’t fall off. Rod storage is easy.
– Quieter – When standing, the number and magnitude of ripples it sends out from small shifts in weight is much much smaller than with a kayak and pontoons. Much stealthier approach. Plus, no scuppers or similar creating noise or drag.
– Sit higher. Your butt does not get wet. Easier to stand-up and sit down than than having to get all the way up from a kayak seat.
– Easy to load solo / easy to carry. My 15′ canoe weighs the same as my 12′ kayak, but oddly is easier for me to put on and take off my car solo. I didn’t think I could do this, but it is easy. The thing also comes with a yoke, which makes carrying it a cinch.
– Snags – Flyline has a clean and obvious place to go. No snags.Cons
– Wind. It does catch the wind.
– Less versatile – I will not be taking the canoe out in the salt.
– Not unskinkable – Sit-on tops can’t be swamped
– Cost – on avg., royalex canoes cost more than polyethylene kayaksMaybe the kayak and SUP marketing people, and the professional kayak anglers have us all hoodwinked by the trend. Maybe I’ve not tried the right kayak – but all of the ones that seem more standable than the tarpon (jackson coosa, the wilderness ride, native ultimate) were all too heavy for easy loading and unloading.
For me, the right canoe is superior for me if you are wanting to stand. Will I still use the Tarpon, sure, but will probably not use it much for fishing other than maybe lake fishing and some salt stuff.
I’m pretty surprised to be writing this, but this is how it is.
I’ll be interested to see how this plays out. SA has by far been the most persistently innovative of the line companies (coming up with microspheres, the AST type stuff / line coatings, density compensated sinking lines, textured lines and probably a lot of other stuff). I have, rightly or wrongly, attributed a lot of this to being attached with a larger chemical company and the knowledge exchange derived from that. What will happen now? Yeah, Orvis says they will keep SA independent – even if they do, what will the result be? Will the loss of the 3M infrastructure eventually leave SA fallow?
As for Ross Reels, I could always take or leave them – I viewed them a lot like Orvis reels – meh, mostly. (SA did sell some dynamite reels – the Charlton, the Mastery Series and System 3).
<cite> @ZachMatthews said:</cite>
FWIW I prefer the Patagonia Great Divider series of bags for all boat use.Bringing this back up because I noticed that Sierra Trading Post has the old Great Divider on sale right now. It is a great bag – great for fishing stuff, boat bag, canoe bag, camera bag, etc. Price is $139, but STP will normally give you an extra 20-30% off if you sign-up for a mailing list.
Also, they are kind of obscure, but a company called Sagebrush Dry makes some truly impressive actual dry bags, both for cameras and otherwise (they don’t look like much from the pics, but they are really well built).
If you are posted up on a point, bar or whatever, it can get rough even on a skiff sitting and watching for them. I stand in my kayak a fair amount doing striper and carp, with and without pontoons, and cannot imagine doing it on somewhat open water. I guess, though, if you are tossing at rollers you’re doing it when the wind is down, the water is slick and the waves are way less than the 2+ feet that I initially imagined when you said gulf.
Doing ocean-side stuff in a kayak is sort of fascinating, mostly because I’d think that unless you have a consistent string of rollers or you have a high sun and sandy bottom, it would be tough to see them far enough away to have an incoming, as opposed to outgoing, shot. That would be tough, and fun, fishing.
I’ve thought about trying to go it alone down there on a yak, but have always decided that not living by the salt has its price, and that price is paying a guide as opposed to investing the time to beat the learning curve. However, it is still really interesting to me.
Kaenon, Kaenon, Kaenon. Owned Costas, Maui Jims, and Kaenons. I’m a Kaenon man now. Love em.
Kaenon’s are great glasses and, in my experience, the company has super service (mine broke due to stupidity and they replaced them quickly with a whole new pair basically for free).
Chris – Thanks for the ideas. I hit up a few of them (including that high tide flat ) Sunday from low tide to high tide. Took a while to get back to that flat – really cool watching that area flood and come to life. Saw a couple of redfish but didn’t really have any shots. A lot of paddling in my kayak, though. Hooked a crab on a clouser, which was a new experience. Pretty country and having 7 foot tidal swings is quite a trip and makes you think a little more before you toss your kayak in!
Jay – Thanks for the pointer as well – the GF, her brothers and I took a trip on SUPs (me standing in my kayak) late in the day on saturday out of that marina. Highlight of their trip. Really nice area. Didn’t take arod and didn’t see any reds back there, but could imagine it to be a good place.
Depends what you’ll be doing and what your casting style is. If you like fast rods and will be throwing sinking lines and large flies, i can’t recommend the TFO BVK rod enough. It is great in that application and can really boom the line out there. I have the 9 wt, and assume the 10 wt is similar. That said, I know nothing about musky fishing, but I believe I’ve heard its a low fish/cast ratio – if that’s the case, being able to toss a reasonable distance increases hook-up % and decreases fatigue.
The grip with the black foam ring is a little inelegant, but the rod itself casts like a champ. Casts very similar to a Loomis GLX CrossCurrent, but has a better warranty and is 1/3 the price. Other than the grip, it actually comes with decent hardwear – if I had rod building tools and experience, I’d buy an off-the-shelf BVK, remove the handle and re-do that to my liking.
