VXP, something new or something old
- This topic has 24 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Aug 23, 2010 at 8:17 am by
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In the new products post the VXP was indicated to be a reissue of the old XP blank with different hardware, but the Sage press release indicates it is “a completely new family of fly rods “.
Bob –
I am revising my entire post here because I made some very incorrect assumptions.
The word from Sage is there is no connection between the VXP and the original XP, other than generally falling in the same performance/speed profile.
“But no, Sage, and its dealers, WANTS consumers to readily pay $700 – $1000 for rods. On a $700 rod the shop is going to make $350 versus $200 on a $400 rod.”
I don’t like paying high prices any more than anyone else but, I like the look and feel, as well as the pride of ownership a quality product gives me. Let’s keep in mind that fly shops/dealers also have overhead to pay for as well, such as rent, utilities and employees (those people whom we like to pick their brains everytime we stop in to pick up a few flies). Also, they are not a “non-profit” operation. I don’t think there’s a fly shop anywhere that is “raking in the bucks”.
There are plenty of low priced rods on the market these days that we have to choose from. But, yet, many of us still choose Sage and other high end rods, including me. If enough people chose the low end, companies would eventually stop making the high end, or at least reduce the number of them. Apparently, there still exists enough of a market for them.
The flyfishing industry is small. Without some higher profit line of products, I’m certain many of the existing companies would go out of business. Then we would complain about lack of choice. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.
Just something to think about. I now step down from my soap box.
Here, here Ralph. If you want a quality Sage rod then buy a Sage. If you want a Redington buy a Redington. Me, I have a dozen sage rods and love them all. Even the 15 year old ones!
Somewhere I heard that the redington cpx’s were based on the xp blank, but that’s pure rumor as far as i’m concerned, although clearly i don’t mind spreading it.
Regan –
Redington’s ties to Sage aside, in all seriousness I think you will find that most Chinese-made rods ARE based to a large degree on the XP right now.
On a $700 rod the shop is going to make $350 versus $200 on a $400 rod.
I would like to see where you got the break down that shops make a true 50% on rods.
[glow=yellow,2,300]But no, Sage, and its dealers, WANTS consumers to readily pay $700 – $1000 for rods. On a $700 rod the shop is going to make $350 versus $200 on a $400 rod.[/glow]
Steve Its $500 US and is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy one. No doubt they (Sage) will spend a large amount of that (before they’ve sold a single rod) on advertising, the stuff that keeps the magazines, going so it goes back into the industry. Its a small tight industry and no one is getting rich from it – no one. I suggest you visit the annual Fly Tackle Dealers show in Denver and you will find out just how small this industry really is. Most people who work in fly fishing do it because they love it. Maybe you’re new to this sport or something but this argument goes round and round for year after year.
The cost of R&D is spread over a lot of generations of rods. Zach is right, they have looked to recapture the feel of the XP using the latest technology, that’s Generation 5 stuff.
Morsie
On a $700 rod the shop is going to make $350 versus $200 on a $400 rod.
I would like to see where you got the break down that shops make a true 50% on rods.
Great.. now the secret is out, everyone will want to get into this business.
Great.. now the secret is out, everyone will want to get into this business.
Everyone wants to be in this business, but don’t understand the retail side of it.
I got into this sport because I found it to be a relaxing, enjoyable hobby. I am glad that companies such as Sage, Loomis, Scott and others lead the way in developing new products. As the old saying goes, somebody has to do it. I am also glad that there are many reel, line mfrs.
We should all enjoy this sport and not argue about Sage prices. Sage is a leader and we should be glad we have them and the others leading the way.
I also believe that no one is getting rich in the retail part of this. Yes, I am sure that the markup is 40% or so, but shops need this to stay in business. I know they can be a great source for fishing info.Then we would complain about lack of choice.
I really think we do have a lack of choice in the new graphite rod market. Yeah, we have a ton of models by a ton of companies, but how many of those rods really have a different action than the others? They’re all some form of fast or ultra fast. If there was really choice, then companies would be producing slow, medium slow, medium, medium fast, fast, ultra fast, etc. 10 sticks in 10 different colors, but with the same action doesn’t equal choice in my mind.
Then we would complain about lack of choice.
If there was really choice, then companies would be producing slow, medium slow, medium, medium fast, fast, ultra fast, etc. 10 sticks in 10 different colors, but with the same action doesn’t equal choice in my mind.
Let’s figure this out:
10 sticks in 10 different colors/actions = 100 sticks
100 sticks in different colors/actions x 15 different weights = 1500 sticks
1500 sticks from 10 different manufacturers = 15,000 sticks
Just wondering how many fly shops are willing to put that in their inventory. It’s a recipe for bankruptcy.
That may be so, but wouldn’t it be nice to actually have a choice in a new graphite rod in something other than fast action?
I agree, choice is a great thing. But there are too many variables.
Maybe a “custom” rod is the way to go for you. Easy enough to make anything you want.
I actually just stick to first generation graphite rods from Orvis when I want to fish a graphite rod.
I am curious as to how many of us actually worry about the margins and who gets those $ in the value chain of the products we buy. If you are going to pay $595 for a flyrod that you want, do you care where the profit $ out of that $595 goes. Would you be offended to findout that a component supplier was making 300% margin on one a small piece of that rod.
I consult with a lot of companies in a variety of industries and for some elements of some supply chains, margins on individual components and materials can be extremely high. Those margins are necessary to establish and sustain infrastructure and scale to meet the demand for the material. If flyrod manufacturers believe Fly Shops are the best way to sell their product, then those Fly Shops have to be part of the value chain, and take some margin in the process.
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