Simms Online Sales Policy
- This topic has 36 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated May 2, 2012 at 1:24 pm by
.
-
Posts
-
B.R. Snow –
I have seen the test results that show that is not true man. When any wader is brand new it is going to do an excellent job of keeping you warm and dry and comfortable. The longer you go in that pair of waders, the most likely you are to see where your money has been applied. Knife-over breathable membrane technology is just not as controlled or as “quality” a process as the way a Gore-tex membrane is made (it is carved by laser out of a huge block to make a sheet, which is then bonded back to the face fabrics).
My old article “Breathing Underwater” in the articles section addresses this, but we weren’t allowed to get into all the nitty gritty because of political considerations. Suffice it to say that there really is a significant difference between Gore-Tex membranes and Toray membranes. The only wader manufacturers with a WL Gore license are Simms, L.L. Bean, and formerly Cloudveil, but they are now out of the fishing business. Everyone else is re-naming a product which they are buying from third parties and calling it their own. Of all wader manufacturers, Simms is the only one making them in an American facility (I have literally watched them do it) and their product is objectively superior across a range of categories. Of course it is also the most expensive.
Zach
I realize if you look at test results you can justify the price. We fish pretty hard year round here in CO and a couple of my buddies have simms waders, heck my jacket is simms, but their waders do not hold up any better than the rest. They are not any warmer during the winter either. They have a great product, no doubt, but in uses that include
Also I am not knocking their products at all, I use some of them. I also do not skimp on gear. I tend to over spend pretty much using scott rods/abel reels, I am a gear junky can’t help it. Was just saying that Simms is make strides to stay competitive as the less expensive options are quite effective and they need to figure how keep their name worth the extra $$. BR
Now we are talking primarily about breathability, which has a lot to do with comfort and warmth, if your sweat doesn’t transport you will be cold, or hot and wet or just clammy. Everything I have read in the past said that Gore Tex transports more moisture by far than the competitors.
I have just replaced my second pair of Simms Guides with a pair of Patagonias, so I guess I’ll find out empirically the difference. I will say that Patagonia’s new suspender system is miles ahead, you can just drop the front down to your waist with a couple of clips for walking, then slide them back up when you need them.
JCSimms and Scott Fly Rods are two of the only fly rod companies posting large growth and profits in the current economy.
Said with so much certainty and confidence. Where can I find such postings?
Wasnt this originally about Simms going direct?
I guess my point is that no one is going to admit that the shit is hitting the fan. Every one is going to say they are doing great even if the boat is sinking.
they are about to open a new multi-million-dollar facility complete with “guide lounge.”
Zach
Well in that case I am buying all things Simms!
Simms is a private company, so there is no way to tell how they are doing. Hopefully the expansion goes well for them. I also hope scott rods is raking in the cash, they have quite a bit of my money as well. 3 new scotts have arrived in the last few months, the last one just last week:-) BR
Simms is doing well–they’re not just the ones telling people that, so are their competitors. And yes while I certainly believe the folks telling me that, you can see for yourself that they are doing well with their new facility. Their move into other apparel, the bass market, and most likely the big catalogs have all been good moves for them. They also do a great job for the local fly shop. Simms’ SE Rep Dave Chouinard is one of the most reliable people in the region for showing up on shop Saturdays and supporting events like Troutfest. That certainly counts as support for local shops. They just do it right, y’all, top to bottom.
As for their waders leaking, I have had two pairs of Simms Guides – a 1998 and a 2006 model. The ’98s I sent back in about 2004 to have new booties put on because I had walked them off. The only leaks were minor pinholes I put in them and which I easily patched. The 2006s have not leaked appreciably even though I have well over one hundred miles hiking in them. I am sure I could find a pinhole if I tried, but it’s not enough for me to even notice dampness on my clothes.
They just make very good gear. They are not a sponsor here, nor have they ever been, so don’t think I am telling you that because of some relationship. Having covered the gear side of this industry for the magazines pretty intensively for going on a decade, I have just become convinced that they are the clear winner in their sector, and that goes even factoring in their additional cost. Because their stuff is American-made and uses Gore-Tex, you get a proportionally better product for your money. That’s not to say other waders won’t do the job well (Patagonia’s designs are excellent, for example), but the people who were concerned about paying for essentially a generic product with a brand slapped on them have put the cart before the horse with Simms–that is more descriptive of a lot of their competition, frankly.
Zach
Said with so much certainty and confidence. Where can I find such postings?
Wasnt this originally about Simms going direct?
Yes, and reminiscing about our local fly shop. I fish Penn’s Creek in PA often, and a group of us were out there a week ago. The local flyshop owner is Jonas at the Feathered hook. No financial interest here, just a friendly plug.
We all agreed, fishing out there would not be the same without the local flyshop. It is a place for great advice, a cup of coffee and to renew friendships. When your sunglasses take a dump in the river, or it starts raining and your rain gear is 200 miles away the gear you need is just a swipe of the credit card away. And I never leave the shop without spending at least $20 bucks, but often way more. Maybe that is why I have 17 jars of Aquel.
But having said that, I spent 20 years of my life in a mom and pop brick and mortar business selling hand and power tools. The internet, big box stores, manufacturers, lack of sales tax, and fickle customers are the drivers that will really affect the outcome.
But it would be a sad day to lose my favorite stream side fly shop…
ps. Scott fly rods rock
Back to the original topic of this thread. Simms going direct was a bold and ambitious move. This business/industry is not growing at the same rate as the people steering Simms expect their company to grow. So they’ve done two things – gone to adjacent businesses to grow and gone direct to support that growth. If anyone in this business could pull off a move like this, it was Simms.
A component of this that I think people are missing is that they lose track of Simms’ competitors – all of them were selling direct before Simms. Orvis and Patagonia, although a slightly different animal, were direct from day one. Redington recently announced they were going direct (before Simms). LL Bean and Cabelas sell direct through their own retailers (similar to Orvis and Patagonia). There is no way a company with as much presence and market share in this industry as Simms is going to sit back and let all their competition reap the profits and advantages of going direct without joining the movement.
I think the outcome will be different for every dealer. Some dealers will not be affected, as noted. Some will. It’s a shame for those that will lose sales due to this call but at the same time, this is a sign of the times.
At the end of the day, less people are fly fishing than 10 years ago. If you want to do what’s best for the dealer, don’t bitch about who is going direct – get a new person into the sport.
Simms is a big company and is apparently successful, therefore, they must be evil children of the devil.
I definitely agree with Zach about Simms’ waders quality. I buy a new pair every five years and put between 75-100 days a year on them. If they do get a leak, I send them back to Simms and for a modest fee they are repaired.
Patagonia has successfully sold direct as well as through shops for years. I think Simms is just changing with the times. An essential component is staying alive in business.
These days, can you be a REAL fly fisher without a Simms label showing? It seems as though that brand has taken over the classic Orvis stereotype.
The only way I’ll buy Simms overpriced imported clothes is when it is on sale… deep sale. I can get the same quality in clothes from other manufacturers at far better prices.
As for waders, I too have owned Simms waders for a number of years and find them seviceable indeed. Not magical but serviceable. I wish Cloudveil was still in the wader business because I would buy them hands-down over Simms if my Cloudveils ever break. The fit and finish of the Cloudveils beat the heck out of Simms of the time. I didn’t need a shoe horn to get my feet over the gravel guards any longer and I didn’t need a buddy to help get my legs out of them like I did the Simms. The lining in Cloudveils was a great deal more user-friendly than the grabby stuff Simms uses. Just stating the facts here as a user of both.
Having plenty of experience with Patagonia gear over the years and through many outdoor sports such as CC skiing and sailing, I know going in what to expect from Patagonia, highly funtional clothing that takes off where the original, non Speigel Eddie Bauer left off. Complete with bullet proof warranty.
I used Patagonia foul weather gear for racing and won’t blink an eye ordering Patagonia waders when a next pair of waders is in order.Passion or fashion doesn’t play much into my fishing attire. Functionality, value and fit does.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.