Simms Online Sales Policy
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Don’t know if you all have read about it yet, but Simms has announced that they will sell direct on their Web site at the en of the summer in addition to providing links to dealers with online stores. The interview with the Simms CEO is:
I read somewhere else that part of their strategy is to prevent anyone (aka dealers) from discounting the product on eBay, etc. I’ve also heard that they try to forbid dealers from discounting.
I’ve also heard that they try to forbid dealers from discounting.
I am pretty sure that it is still unlawful to restrict discounting. However, it is very much lawful to require a dealer to agree to Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) provision.
MAP provisions are often referred to on the internet as price fixing.
Mom and pop local dealers who house merch inside of brick and mortar and contain a wealth of local knowledge, fishing experience, expert teaching, etc. are soon to be extinct. I think this will absolutely hurt local guys. Manufactures opening up to the big boxers was the first knife in the back, selling direct could be the final blow. We should all be preparing ourselves to be purchasing our gear from pimple face high school kids at Walmart or from Amazon. Shimano is the canary in the coal mine. If an outfit wants to sell Shimano they must have brick and mortar, period!
This will not effect those of us who live and die fly fishing and can make highly informed choices. However, newbies and those on the fringes of exploring the fly fishing world benefit greatly from being walked through – setting up a reel, rod taper and making the right purchases based on APPLICATION. Kids and women, are the leading edge of growth in our sport, this will slow that growth.
Friends of mine opened an urban shop 30 years ago and worked their tails off alongside of Simms to move the FF world into the crazy idea of “breathable” waders. This is some thanks to those guys who helped put them on the map!
Yea, I am bitter. I am just one of those guys who can fish mid-week and who enjoys spending a Saturday morning drinking coffee and BSing with my guys down at the local shop about hatches, gear, water levels, inventory, and the like. I will miss those mornings.
I agree about liking local shops! I enjoy sitting around and shooting the breeze too and I hate online shopping :/
As long as they can keep the dealers stocked I don’t think it’ll be an issue since they plan on charging shipping and sales tax on all orders it’ll still be cheaper to buy products through a local shop (if you have one).
Right now I’m waiting on a particular bag from Simms that has been backordered for several months.
Its my opinion that while their waders and boots are still amongst the best, they are charging higher prices than most banking on their past reputation (made in the U.S, sold at fly shops, etc…).
They do make good waders, but places like LL Bean sell really nice waders with 100% guarantee. I wore a pair for 5 years and they started to leak, they refunded my original purchase price no questions and I ordered another pair. I had no idea a company would do that, I just asked if they had a suggestion to patch as the leak was in the foot area and I had hundreds of days in the water with them. As quality waders are getting cheaper to make, Simms is going to have to do something to stay competitive, this is probably their first step. BR
100% guarantees are only possible when you’re making your product overseas and your profit margin is sufficient to allow you to replace product for free.
Simms is the only American-made Gore-tex wader manufacturer. Gore-tex is legitimately more breathable than any competitive fabric by approximately 40%. It is expensive because there are licensing fees involved.
Simms and Scott Fly Rods are two of the only fly rod companies posting large growth and profits in the current economy. Scott does it by knowing its customer base and staying very close to its core. Simms is doing it by making very smart moves to expand into profitable softgoods sectors (high-end apparel, raingear) and mostly staying away from low-margin peripheral imported stuff which is simply rebadged from a design already created by a Chinese manufacturer.
This is a situation where you get what you pay for. I have two pairs of waders: a 1998 pair of Simms Guides and a 2006 pair of Simms Guides. I am due for another pair due to wet-out, but I’ll take a 6-8 year lifespan on waders, as hard as I use them, any day.
Zach
Simms and Scott Fly Rods are two of the only fly rod companies posting large growth and profits in the current economy. Scott does it by knowing its customer base and staying very close to its core.
I’m stunned that Scott is posting strong profits . . . . pleasantly stunned I might add as I own several G2, S4, F2 and S4S’s and think
Scott makes great rods . . . . . but I’ve walked into several shops the past 24 months that no longer carry Scott because they “weren’t selling.”I also am pleasantly shocked about Scott fly rods. They are far and away my favorite rod maker, but i cant even buy one within a hundred miles of my home! Im very happy to hear they are doing well! Very happy!
As far as my harsh comments on Simms go…im not happy they are selling direct but i was a bit quick to throw them under the bus. Lets just say a bad day at work and a couple of good beers were at play. 😀
I will comment though that while they may be *better* I am pretty sure i am not the only person on this board who owns multiple pairs of waders from various manufactures. I can honestly say that i have been pretty happy with a couple of pairs that were less expensive than my simms, regardless of the brand of breathable material used. More than likely i will continue to buy Simms as long as they stay American made. If they offshore them and continue to charge American made prices…then we will have a problem.
Zach is right – you get what you pay for. I fished a guide’s Scott S4S in NOLA last year and liked it so much I came home and bought an S4 for trout. One of the best rods I’ve ever fished.
Simms waders? My wife buys me a new pair for my birthday every 5 years. I average between 75-100 days in them each year. And, I’m not easy on them. I take naps in prickly pear, slide down banks on my butt (a habit of older anglers). My last pair was repaired by Simms and returned in perfect (well, almost) condition with 72 holes repaired.
My favorite pair of wading boots – no more than 10 years old – is a pair of Weinbrenner Gary Borger felt soles (made in the USA). I leave them in Montana with my son now so as to avoid transporting anything back East, but for wading the slick western rivers they can’t be beat.
Simms and Scott Fly Rods are two of the only fly rod companies posting large growth and profits in the current economy. Scott does it by knowing its customer base and staying very close to its core.
I’m stunned that Scott is posting strong profits . . . . pleasantly stunned I might add as I own several G2, S4, F2 and S4S’s and think
Scott makes great rods . . . . . but I’ve walked into several shops the past 24 months that no longer carry Scott because they “weren’t selling.”I have same situation in “my” shop, they carry a few Scotts, go in ask about Scott XYZ model, will try to steer you to SAGE rack and tell you how great Sage is.
I’ve owned and fished lots Sage rods, still own one, but flyshop attitudes got me to looking at Scott plus cast a G2, haven’t looked back.
100% guarantees are only possible when you’re making your product overseas and your profit margin is sufficient to allow you to replace product for free.
Simms is the only American-made Gore-tex wader manufacturer. Gore-tex is legitimately more breathable than any competitive fabric by approximately 40%. It is expensive because there are licensing fees involved.
Simms and Scott Fly Rods are two of the only fly rod companies posting large growth and profits in the current economy. Scott does it by knowing its customer base and staying very close to its core. Simms is doing it by making very smart moves to expand into profitable softgoods sectors (high-end apparel, raingear) and mostly staying away from low-margin peripheral imported stuff which is simply rebadged from a design already created by a Chinese manufacturer.
This is a situation where you get what you pay for. I have two pairs of waders: a 1998 pair of Simms Guides and a 2006 pair of Simms Guides. I am due for another pair due to wet-out, but I’ll take a 6-8 year lifespan on waders, as hard as I use them, any day.
Zach
I actually use exclusively Scott rods, the waders I returned where made out of gortex, could be why LL Bean stopped making that product. BR
I guess the actual dilemma that manufacturers like Simms have to face is how to survive over the long term, and selling direct doubles their gross receipt on a pair of waders, which probably triples the profit. With the way things are going and more and more business being conducted online, they are really competing more with other online marketers of their own product than they are with the local shop. I think if I were in their position I would make
Simms biggest issue is people are going to find out that for 1/3 of the simms price you can get waders which do the exact same thing, just as well. It is not like a fly rod, where it matches your cadence or you develop a bond with the company. It is not the same relationship, they are waders. They need to keep you dry and comfortable. BR
I’m not too sure I can agree. “Just as well”…even most of the time is not good enough for me. There is no substitute for being dry and comfortable AND having waders which fit well.
Simms for me. I always ask the best from myself and my gear. I hate compromising
I certainly feel for the small store but Simms selling direct online is not really an issue surely? Simms gear is already online via shops, ebay
etc etc.
I’m a little sceptical as to what the impact would be, if at all?That’s pretty much my feelings on this Simon, you can’t get a shop much smaller than mine, and I don’t see this hurting me any and if Simms does go after those that advertise below MAP it will be a good thing.
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