Rod Actions

[spencer ballard]

All this talk is making me want to go fish my Scott Fiberglass rod.

[Rich Kovars]

Here you go guys, right from the horse’s mouth (Jim Lepage, chief designer at Orvis):

Hello Zach,

I read through your post and I can see one area that might help explain recovery better by including relative mass.

A simple example of flex index vs. recovery would be to include mass when speaking about the difference. Fiberglass rods vs. graphite or graphite vs. bamboo. Loading a rod with a known weight to calculate the flex profile of the rod does indeed mean that it needs fall into the same area of the load board. That same rod if extremely light and reactive (high modulus fibers allow rods to be built with less mass to reach same flex profiles) than recovery of rod has less mass to move back to neutral, creating a faster recovery and therefore what some call a ‘fast rod’.

Here’s the straight definition:

I think it is fairer to say that a fast rod is one that is light, responsive, casts well in close and has a progressive taper that can handle long lines, yet has a fast recovery, and therefore a shorter stroke while casting.

Hope that helps.

Best, Jim

Thanks Jim!

Zach

Ha!  So we’re reducing the M in the F=MA.  Given the same acceleration if you lower the mass you lower the force.  

I just moved The Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips to the top of my Amazon list.

[spencer ballard]

So a heavier rod = more mass = more force = longer casts….

[Steve Dally]

After 7 years of casting lots of rods and trying to come up with reviews and words to describe them, Ive come to a few conclusions. We actually don’t have the language to do it, and it doesn’t really matter.

What the rod designers/engineers (pretty much every company has 1 or each to do the job of making a rod) use is basically useless to those outside the company/fraternity. Generally they are using their own company standards, as opposed to comparing to other brands, ie winston fast isn’t sage fast.

The rest of us mere mortals, even professional rod testers, battle for the terminology to describe what we are feeling. A lot of FF, including the initial poster, really want a definitive way of comparing rods.
Which is why you got the CCS system, did I spell that right, its an engineers system which puts me to sleep anytime it pops up on the screen.

My mother happened to be a wine buff, a serious taster, so I got to hang around that crowd a lot (drank some great wines) but Im no serious taster (swiller might be a better term). But

[Carter Simcoe]

The key is to leave the price tag on, sort of like a pair of Air Jordans.

[Steve Dally]

lol carter your such a cynic,
I own $675 rods and $75 rods and fish ’em both lol
im also really wants

[Carter Simcoe]

I think you think I’m disagreeing with you..

The cheap rods also work better when you take off the “made in Asia” stickers, btw.

[Zach Matthews]

Carter –

You all would have to know that Carter is a card-carrying made-in-Asia rods user to know that he is joking.

[Carter Simcoe]

I had one pair of Air Jordans in my life, when I was in 6th grade.

[Mike Anderson]

Google rod action fast slow. You won’t find anything about recovery rate. A fast rod recovers faster because less of it bends. A whippy rod can’t also be a fast rod.

[Tim Pommer]

I had one pair of Air Jordans in my life, when I was in 6th grade.

[Rich Kovars]

For all the sick individuals like me who are interested, there is a pretty good set of articles in The Loop about the physics involved in casting.  It is an attempt to bring the concepts down a little bit and it does a pretty good job.

Part 1

Part 2

[Simon Chu]

Well the whole fast thing/slow etc is relative to the line or weight used to flex the rod.
(I suppose?) 😕

How do they decide which line weight goes with each rod?
We all believe the line will affect the rod action..don’t we? 😉 ;D

[andrew connell]

[some of this may not make sense… its Australia Day today 😉 G’day Steve]

The terms Fast, slow and parts there of can be applied to both Action and Recovery rate…

I would rate the S4 as Fast to Med Fast Action but Fast recovery…

Carter, I rebuilt a Chinese rod the year before last that I had for a few years, it sits along side my mostly high end rods and is easily a favourite, however I would say its a freak

[andrew connell]

If you don’t like the action why not change it a little

[Rich Kovars]

Dug up a pretty good series of articles on the physics involved in casting (The links to the articles are on the right hand side of the page).

[danl]

Chew on this one when you get a chance;

http://www.common-cents.info/glossary.htm

It describes a system that anyone can do to compare most aspects of rod action using pennys as weights, “cents”.

[bob bolton]

Many people have struggled for some time to try to convert words like “feel” and “fast” and “stiff” and “full flex” and many more to real numbers. The most comprehensive data base is the CCS system and the most important number in there is ERN. This ends up being a measure of the static load carrying capability of a rod. Work on the dynamic characteristics to supplant words like “quick” and “light” and others appear to be best summarized by Magnus Angus with his work on MOI which will be added to the data base at some point. Eventually, the rod manufactures will zero in on the fine work by Bill and Magnus and rod static and dynamic characteristics will be summarized relatively well on one plot of ERN vs MOI. Then everyone can find out what all those words really mean in terms of physical variables. You can find Bill’s work on CCS by googleing Common Cents System, Magnus and Grunde Lovell’s work can be seen on http://www.Sexyloops.com on the board under tackle – rod deflection. Or you can really bore yourself with my stuff on http://www.HATofMichigam.org – go to the e-book page and see “Mechanics of Fly Casting 1-5”. Only bother to do this if you are really interested in the F=MA stuff and are wanting to spend a little time.

Godspeed,

Bob

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