Float Trip Ends in Shooting
- This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated Jul 31, 2013 at 3:51 pm by
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Sorry Ben, but much appreciated. It’s part of what keeps this such a collegial board.
ZachNo problem at all, Zack. I would have deleted the post but discovered that I could only edit it. Yep, two things that should never be a topic of conversation, politics and Bagels… 🙂
Sorry to be political – I find it a very interesting subject.
I will point out though, that while I was born in Australia I lived in Central Illinois until I returned here in 1984 and still have most of my family in the US.
www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Rusty Garoutte provided this link:
http://www.emissourian.com/opinion/editorials/article_f5014543-8fc6-5df0-9c48-372dd3cf758a.html
I offer it not to feed the political debate (it’s an opinion piece) but for the additional facts it presents. I agree with the conclusion that we should all be on our guard and also that this is a sad state of affairs.
The shooter has been charged with second degree murder. Legally, he did not have grounds to repel mere trespassers with deadly force. Typically the only remedy to repair a temporary trespass is that you can be forced to leave the property (and the police might charge you with creating some kind of public unrest, but that’s a criminal matter).
Zach
Zach,
That’s pretty much the thick and thin of it.
The guy shouldn’t have shot anyone….trespassing or not.
The guy might try to get off with self defense, but I don’t see that working out too well.One legal precedent on this river says that the adjacent land owner owns to the middle of the river.
Another legal precedent on this river provides for a public easement of the river. (Normally, the high water mark.) The public easement allows for floating and wading, for business or for pleasure.Brian, I had a “higher up” at the MDC tell me that any waterway that is navigable, navigable being any stream in which logs may be floated downstream without impedance, is a publicly owned waterway while the banks themselves and the ground beyond may be privately owned.
I have heard this contested but as so often happens with the MDC vagueness and confusion is part of the program.And right you are….why would anyone introduce a gun to such a situation.
Mark,
I agree that there is a lot of confusion and vagueness in MO about this sort of thing.
But if things get pushed to the point of going to court, the will absolutely look at precedences.This incident took place in Crawford county, Missouri on the Meramec River.
Meramec River – Crawford County – non-navigable, Slovensky v. O’Reilly, Mo., 233 S.W. 478 (1921);But there is also precedence for public easement on the Meramec.
While is may be private property, there is still right to be there because of the *public* easement.
Some people just don’t like easements. Many easements are there when people buy property.
Working in the power industry, we see this often enough. We may have to work on a piece of equipment that is on a farmers property. (Usually in a field, along a road, next to a fence.) The power company can come in and get to the line, piece of equipment, what have you. Sometimes the field may be planted, plowed, or whatever and the farmer may not be happy about it. But that’s the way it is.
I would like to see some more defined lines for where we can wade and float. But I would not like to see it all get hashed out in a big court battle. I don’t think that would bode well for us fishermen. Maybe a few bad apples would spoil it for the rest of us.
Mark,
I would like to see some more defined lines for where we can wade and float. But I would not like to see it all get hashed out in a big court battle. I don’t think that would bode well for us fishermen. Maybe a few bad apples would spoil it for the rest of us.I am in agreement with you on this point Brian.
I see the lack of defined rules and the public’s lack of awareness as a strong factor in what happened.
I do find it saddening and maddening that it takes an incident such as this to hopefully provoke the bureaucracy into acting and clarifying some definitions and making them known and clear.I totally agree Mark.
Things need to be cleared up. There is so much bad information going around it is silly.
You mentioned clarifying definitions and making them known and clear. That’s exactly what we need.I was at a good buddy’s house, close to where I grew up. There were several friends gathered there.
One guy is a land caretaker for an older lady who owns property along a stretch of stream. He was talking about the stream on the land he takes care of is named “Xxxxx Creek” and not “Xxxxx River”. According to him, that made it private. That really struck me.I hope some good comes from all of this.
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