Float Trip Ends in Shooting
- This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated Jul 31, 2013 at 3:51 pm by
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Good lord, guys. This is awful. Property rights should be respected but above all remember that some people are just not right in the head. I’ve had a gun waved at me once while fishing and Jay Malyon and I have been shot at as we reported on this board. If someone pulls a gun, get out of there, call the cops, and deal with the situation once you have officials and witnesses. Right or wrong the heat of the moment is not the time to dispute your right to be anywhere.
This is pretty much in my neck of the woods.
The guy that got shot walked up the bank to take a leak. The land owner didn’t appreciate it and was tired of that sort of thing. Then there was a heated discussion about “who owns what” and that sort of thing. Things got even more heated and the land owner ended up shooting the guy.
First, the land owner shouldn’t have shot anyone.
Second, the victim shouldn’t have been trespassing.Do you think booze was involved?
We quit floating the streams in the Ozark Scenic Riverways during the summer. Too many people and way too many of them drunk.
I can’t count the amount of times some dumbass threw out some lewd comment floating by or a bunch of drunks decided to camp right next to our camp site because they got off the river too late set up with any light left.
I have heard gunfire at night from other camp sites up and down stream with strangers walking into our camp out of the dark totally unannounced.I did a one week float through the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago and that river is heavily regulated as to how many people can be on it and how long they can be on it via permit and strict enforcement.
The MDC/law enforcement is stretched way too thin on the OSR and should adopt a similar method but the politicians would never allow it as the canoe rental biz and other float trip support business’s would put the stops on that in a heartbeat.The whole water right of way land owner boundary conflict has been growing as the popularity of floating has grown to where now in many areas fencing, wire and no trespassing sign have become prominent on some streams.
We float only in the fall now, during the week when it’s starting to get cold and we always have protection at hand.
I know one of the owners of the canoe rental places on the Buffalo – Mike Mills at Buffalo Outdoor Center. I don’t have the impression he would mind it if there was a permit quota of some kind. But the problem would be enforcement; there are a million places to enter the water around there and Arkansans are not in the habit of checking regulations to do things like canoeing. And I suspect whatever NPS staff is assigned to the Buffalo would be the absolute bare minimum.
But I definitely know what you mean, Mark.
Mark,
I don’t *know* that booze was involved as I was not there.
But talk from the locals says that booze was involved. Knowing this river, it would be a pretty safe bet. This river sees a *lot* of floaters in the summer months.
It’s one of the closest places to St. Louis for people to float. Mix that in with all of the locals and you get a scene like Zach just pictured.Man, what a friggin’ shame. Like my buddy Mauricio always says though, “People’s nuts man, people’s nuts.”
A sad example of where being a drunken a-hole gets you in big trouble. Guy has a gun and says get off my land, so you give him grief, then grab for his arm while your posse picks up rocks and says put the gun down, and “we’ll see who has the power”… Rocks are even worse than knives in a gun fight.
http://www.rockcitytimes.com/buffalo-river-extremely-high-levels-cheap-beer/
Wow. It is awesome that Arkansas has its own Onion. And one that looks pretty decent from clicking through it.
I’m just going to say this –
You can’t have everyone everywhere armed to the tits and not expect this sort of thing to happen on a regular basis.
Are all the guns really a good idea ?If you can’t have self control IMHO it’s time for some gun control.
www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Dave,
Since you threw it out there, I would love to hear your informed and specific overview on just how you would execute an effective gun control measure/application to alleviate this specific situation…….Dave,<br> Since you threw it out there, I would love to hear your informed and specific overview on just how you would execute an effective gun control measure/application to alleviate this specific situation…….
Hard to say without being there of course, but if guns weren’t available at the point of anger would anyone have been killed ?
In Australia we have fairly tight gun control now and speaking generally most ‘river rage’ situations end in foul language and threats at their worst.
That said, we have nothing like the crowds as in the picture.In my local area shootings are VERY rare as are armed hold-ups, in Sydney there’s the odd shooting between bikers or drug dealers and some armed hold-ups, but nothing like in the US.
It seems to be an increasing problem here just the same.The answer – out of my league probably, but I will say that (IMHO) the gun did do it because without would those two men have come to murder ?
Don’t get me wrong, I like guns & hunting and I don’t think it’s possible to totally eliminate people shooting each other since most of us are dickheads at times, but since Australia tightened gun laws gun crime is WAY down.
So I guess my answer is gun control does work – it’s just hard to do.www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Why not outlaw matches to prevent forest fires. Only the government should have matches.
Oops forgot, until this year Colorado’s biggest forest fire was caused by a Forest Service employee.
Dave I felt compelled to offer a response to you GC statement. This is an old, worn out, yet still active debate here in the US and my thinking is maybe when our friends down under comment on GC in this country they may not have a full grasp of the impact of their statement and its implications in the United States. IMHO to compare the GC actions of the Aussies to what is happening in this country is the proverbial apples and oranges comparison.
My stance has always been one of a practicality based outlook regarding this issue. There to be 300 million guns in the US. I have yet to hear, read or see how “gun control”, in whatever capacity or impact it is utilized, is going to take firearms out of the hands of the “bad guys”, of which there are a wide variety in this country, while disarming law abiding citizens.
The only way real gun control could truly be implemented here would be door to door search and seizure which surely would result in a civil uprising not seen since the 1860’s.When a bunch of drunk assholes harass and irate land owner and someone gets shot, you would take the gun out of the mans hand…claiming that prevent a death(?)…maybe…maybe not.
My argument to you would be someone in that situation should have shown some form of rudimentary common sense and simply walked away. My argument to you would be that fault lies with the one’s who provoked the situation, the ones who trespassed, the ones who introduced a gun into that situation, the dumb drunks who threatened/attacked a landowner with a rock. Fault lies with those who let the anger and machismo gain such emotional momentum. Fault lies with a lack of clarity on the streamside regulations and those who violated them.
Those are the influences when combined and compounded get people shot.
That 9mm. did not have a self actuating trigger, someone had to squeeze it.You be well.
Mark Sides,
Picking up rocks and threatening the guy wasn’t using common sense?
If this guy was yelling at these drunks, and GC was in effect and he didn’t have a gun, then HE’d be the one in the pine box courtesy of a rock.
Non-Americans commenting on GC is typically entertaining. I think more people are killed by hammers and knives here than they are guns… (excluding suicides)
Hey guys –
Much as I hate to put an end to a lively debate, we don’t do politics here on the board. The murderer was clearly in the wrong and will get his punishment.
Thanks,
Zach
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