What’s your view on bamboo fly rods?
- This topic has 46 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated Jan 2, 2011 at 3:43 pm by
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Me walking through a bit of brush, after fishing for more than 24 hours straight, with an 8’8″, 6 wt., bamboo rod that casts double-streamers with ease and dry flies like thistle down, that I made for around $150. The reel was a bit more…
About the pricing:
I don’t think bamboo rods need to be priced above $1500.
The ones that cost more are just cashing in on their name. But it’s a free market of course.About exceptional casting rods:
I have barely scratched the surface on casting excellent casting bamboo rods.
I have heard good things about the casting abilities of rods made by Wojnicki, Reams, Brandin and Dana Gray. Probably much more out there.Durability:
Said before.
I have Sage rods from the Light Line (LL) and SP era. I love them!
I doubt I can get it replaced easily if I broke them?Workmanship:
A factory made rod from Scott, Sage, Winston or Loomis. They are great rods for both fishing and casting. But in terms of workmanship and finish, I doubt they can compare to bamboo rods made by makers these days. Simply because a factory rod builder can’t spend a lot of time on a single rod (time = money).Current bamboo rod makers have access to the best glues, best tools and knowledge ever. This makes current rods much better than older rods (pre-1980?).
Length & material:
I think bamboo as a material is best for shorter length (up to 8 -8.5 ft). Longer rods will be quite heavy. Using hollowing techniques makers still can build rods around 8ft (8.2 ft etc.) weighing at around 3.3 – 3.5 oz. Not bad!Nostalgia:
I guess this comes with age and experience.
Very personal matter.I agree with the guys who disagree with Zach.
Zach seems to be thinking of bamboo rod builders like they are tackle companies. They are not. There is absolutely no reason you need to spend anywhere near $2500 to get something special. As Jay says, when you start getting upwards of $1500 you are paying for nothing more than a name.
Bamboo has its place. I wanted a new hobby about ten years ago, so I tooled up and made a 8-9 bamboo rods..Mostly light line rods 2-4wt…a couple 5wts & a 6wt…..Most are very nice, one or two of them are dogs..I have a couple more in the works but I havent done squat with them since my daughters arrived(18 months & 3.5years).
Its not about better, best, or anything like that…Fly rods are like golf clubs…..There is no do all…cuz if there was I wouldnt have 17-20 of them in the basement ;).
Bamboo rods are just alternative tools to fill a niche in your rod locker and add to your fishing pleasure.
I love to fish bamboo rods…Its great fun…but…if the situation calls for a 50′ casts on a consistant basis..Indicators, Split shot, etc…….You will find graphite in my hand 100% of the time. Cheers.
Please let’s not talk about ‘bamboo has its place’. That’s an argument that will kill any discussion.
I am interested (as many other I guess) about what makes you fish bamboo (or not) and what do you like or dislike about them.
Jay,
Bamboo rods are like any other rod. My 4wt, general purpose, bamboo trout rod is now out of commission for good because of a bad re-wrap of a ferrule (performed by me instead of a qualified professional) that let in water. When it broke (just recently) the wood in the ferrule was mush. Oh well.
But I digress…
A bamboo rod is like any other rod. I fished it on large rivers, small creeks, with splitshot or streamers, with dry flies, and in any conditions you can imagine. It fished well and with ease from 5 feet out to 60+ feet. I liked that these rods are handmade with care, I like way they look, and, more importantly, I like the action. For the purposes of 99% of stream trout fishing, there are no disadvantages to fishing a bamboo rod.
The only caveat is that you need to practice better handling of the rod when putting it together or taking it apart. Four of the five breaks Ive experienced with a bamboo rod have come when carelessly putting it together for the day or carelessly breaking it down at the end of the day. These four breaks were easily repairable. The fifth break was due to my own bad repair job on what should have been a routine repair.
My advice, should you decide you want one, is to get in contact with any local builders you can find. Cast their rods, then should you like them have a rod specifically for your specifications.
And check out the Clarks forum. Youll get a ton of good advice on there.
Mike,
I already own a couple of bamboo rods.
Clarks is a fine forum, yet it’s also very ‘bamboo minded’ which is fine for inside information, but for a ‘helicopter view’ it’s not the best place.
The best way to compare & get info is indeed cast as many rods possible, get in touch with a local maker. However that’s not possible here in Europe. At least not within a reasonable distance. I do try out rods when I meet fishermen fishing bamboo.
I didnt realize you were in Europe, nor did I realize you werent really in the market. ;D
Anyway, my opinion: If a bamboo rod isnt practical, then neither is a $700 Scott rod that is stiff enough it could be used to beat off a mountain lion in a pinch. Its just trout fishing.
There are guys using bamboo for other things. Check out Bob Clay and his bamboo spey rods:
http://www.riverwatchrods.com/
Ive not cast one of his rods, but I did fish an old English bamboo spey rod on an Atlantic Salmon river just this spring. It was made in Alnwick by an ex Hardy guy and had the locking Hardy ferrules. The thing is 50-60 years old. I only spent about an hour with it because it was a consignment rod that I was just ‘borrowing’, but I could have fished it all day. It picked up and cast a 65 foot belly floater with ease.
No worries mate! 😀
Yeah, but look at the physique of Bob. That’s the size and strength of a grizzly! 😉
There are some interesting opinions so far about bamboo, some of which I don’t necessarily agree with. Each to their own and here come mine…!
The disclaimer: I have been making bamboo rods for over 10 years and am not yet 40, which probably puts me at the younger end of the maker spectrum. I don’t have a prolific output and don’t sell commercially. I do sell off the odd rod or take an order now and then to pay for supplies, but the prices I charge are below the ranges posted earlier by Jay. Personally I think rods should be fished and spend more time on the construction and taper tweaking than on the finishing.
I had not fished with a bamboo rod until I made my first. I only started making them because it seemed like a cool thing to try and price ruled out purchasing one new. In Australia I am a long way from the support network that exists for makers in Nth America and am essentially self taught.
For the type of fishing I primarily do , I think that bamboo is ideally suited. Line weights between 3 and 5 and rod lenghts between 6′ and 8′ for use on small, tight brushy streams to medium trout waters. I don’t fish bamboo exclusively and will match the tool to the job.
I don’t buy into the argument that a rod’s special action should be solely related to price, but rather the maker’s knowlege and skill. Contrary to some opinions posted above, there are makers out there working below the radar producing great rods (and I am not saying that is me :)).
Should you expect a $2500 rod to be impressive? I would hope so and certainly part of what you are paying for is the maker’s experience, but there is then also pressure placed on the maker to produce glass like finishes and use fancy hadware which doesn’t inluence the fishing experience. These extras may however influence the owning experience. Also, remember that some of these makers are reliant on rods for their income and there is only a certain number you can produce each year. How much do you need to earn each year to meet your standard of living?
Rod actions are a personal thing. I have cast a Brackett Winston and didn’t particularly like it (sorry Glenn!). Is that a comment against me, the maker or the powers of the universe? How do people choose their graphite rods? Some certainly have a brand loyalty, but even within that they should be purchasing based upon action and feel.
I think price should be taken out of the equation just for a moment. If you are interested in buying a bamboo rod, it comes down to casting rods and getting a feel for what you like and then speaking to makers about what they can do for you. Actions are personal preferences that don’t start with a $ sign, but the maker’s skills will help in delivering what the customer is after.
If you want that rod to have a particular brand name on it, that is up to you and it is your money. There are some great makers out there who deserve their reputation, but don’t think that they are your only option in getting a rod. Irrespective of who you get the rod from, you will most likely pay more than for graphite, but that comes down to economies of scale and the man hours needed to produce the rod.
I am not sure if all the above actually makes sense, but as a maker who likes his rods, I don’t necessarily agree with some of the sentiments expressed earlier. Unfortunately there is also no easy way to prove it all as it is so subjective. I could offer to send a rod to someone to test and I may think it has a great action but there is never a guarantee that the next angler will agree.
Cheers,
Callum
Callum,
I am about to come into possession of a Hardy Marvel 7′ 6″ bamboo blank that I won in a random drawing on a rod builder board.
As a dedicated tackle junkie I own a lot of graphite rods and a couple of decent bamboo rods.
My take is a lot like Zachs. I just prefer graphite for fishing. I very much appreciate the beauty and craftmanship that goes into bamboo fly rods. And I’m glad that bamboo is part of the fly fishing heritage. But…..given a choice I’ll take graphite every time. And I am particular about my rods. I don’t like ultrafast graphite at all. I like my rods with some “feel”.
I do think it also has something to do with the type of fishing you do. I fish tailwaters for trout a lot. My favorite rod is 8.5 foot 5 wt. I think in that size bamboo feels heavy and slow. My opinion is that bamboo’s sweet spot is rods in the 6 to 7 foot range for a 3 or 4 wt line. But everyone is different or we’d all be fishing with the same rod and how boring would that be?
Greg
Bob,
Sorry, are you asking about building up the blank or what you may expect from the Hardy taper?
The Hardys generally have a deeper flexing action which is usually described as parabolic.
I think the main issue being that many (most?) fly fishermen have never cast (let alone fished) a good and light 8ft #5 rod. With good I mean not slow but very well loading and active feeling rod.
I try not to use the words ‘fast’, ‘snappy’ or ‘stiff’ because that’s the way graphite rods are described and bamboo rods CAN be stiff and fast (rods made by the Austrian rod maker Brunner are typical stiff and fast). But I think we do not want a copy of graphite’s rods in bamboo.
Heavy is a very overrated thing. Take a 9ft graphite rod from 20-25 years ago and you’ll find them heavy as well. Yes, on the weighing scale bamboo will put some more weight simply because a few reasons: it’s solid material (there are hollowing techniques for bamboo but let’s keep it simple) rather than hollow tube like graphite rods and there is at least one set (in case of a two piece rod) of nickel silver ferrules.
I do agree myself that long bamboo rods (9ft) is just too heavy. Rod weighing 5oz is just too heavy for my taste too.
People who have never cast a good & light 8ft bamboo rods need to cast one when they run into one. With a good rod I do mean the one that are considered by the bamboo community: Brandin, Wojnicki and such. Or even a Dickerson 8013, but real Dickersons are valuable rods (these rods are made around the 2nd WW) and cost around $6500+….
Now I think of it, it’s like Windows users saying Macs are no good while they have never really used one. Not just fiddled at at Walmart. 😎
I fish bamboo, graphite and ‘glass, and love them all.
My South Bend 290 for small stream spotted bass is a joy. My Phillipson Preferred is a great trout rod.
My Harry Boyd (Winnsboro, La.) 7-wt is a fantastic largemouth rod, and Harry says it’ll take a bull redfish, but I haven’t managed to hook into one with it yet.
I’ve broken one…a cheap H-I.
Zach’s opinions are well-regarded on my part. But just as what I wrote above…just opinions. Everybody’s wild about TFO as affordable rods. Personally, I don’t care for them, preferring Redington rods much more in that price range. It’s the old Ford vs. Chevy argument after all.It’s the old Ford vs. Chevy argument after all.
Or like trying to convince a Phillies fan that their loyalty to the Phils is misplaced and that the only team with the grit and heart that deserves undying dedication is the Braves. Which is of course true. 😉
Really though, I think it’s pretty clear that we’re not all going to agree on the great bamboo v graphite debate, and I’m not sure what Jay was expecting to read when he started this thread (it seems like he wants to hear what everyone says but also wants to convince everyone that bamboo is awesome – a true fan if I’ve ever seen one 🙂 ), but here’s my two cents, based on nothing more than my personal experiences and observations.
I inherited a glass 8 weight that I love from my great-grandfather. I have fished bamboo a number of times. Still, the rod rack is full of graphite. I really am happy to own and to have fished both those glass and bamboo rods, but graphite is my go-to. The glass wore me out – so heavy – and the bamboo feels delicate. (I know that’s probably a problem with my perception of it rather than with the rod itself, but still.)
That said, I value having those rods because of what they represent, the stories that come with them. When I think of the glass rod, I imagine all the times my Gramp’s dad used it, the water and fish and days it saw, and the long line of fishing and love of tromping through the woods that happily made its way from my great-grandfather to my Gramp to my Dad to me. The bamboo rod is similar. It represents the labor of the rodmaker, the time, the care; when you spend so much time on something like that, you mark it indelibly. Of course, the time you spend on the water with your favorite graphite rods hopefully will result in stories of their own, but it’s not really the same thing.
Hmm. Maybe the Phillies/Braves analogy works better than I thought it did: typically flawless – though often soulless – execution by the team with the best chance to win in most situations (even against the Yanks in the WS) *OR* the team with heart and grit that, though they can’t always be counted on to dominate every situation, surprises and delights and yes, sometimes breaks.* 😉
*and sometimes breaks your heart too.
Lauren
P.S. All you Philly and Yankee fans out there don’t hold my analogies against me for good, okay? 😉
It looks like the discussion was meant turning out like the baseball teams analogy. However that was not the reason of my posting, although the risk turning into one was very much anticipated.
I started getting interested in bamboo some 5-6 years ago. Although I first thought just of getting one nice bamboo rod, it turned out to be much more of a journey. The history behind them is very interesting, but that’s a different part of it. I’m not looking for a rod that belonged to President X or the rod that should be in the museum.
What I’m interested is, since the rod making conditions are the best they have ever been (best available tools, internet making sharing info a breeze, best synthetic glues available, etc.), how good a rod are the current crops of bamboo rods these days? Can they be a true alternative to modern graphite rods?
However before getting to that level of discussion, I guess we/I needed to know what the experience on bamboo rod our forum members have so far. As soon as the ones that really have tried (and still trying) the best modern bamboo rods made come through, we’ll probably be talking about to what level the modern bamboo rods are capable of fishing the way we do today. What are their limits, what are these rods good at, does the nostalgic ‘sound’ of bamboo add to the fishing experience, etc.
I’m not sure if this kind of thoughts and discussion gets a chance here? At the Clark’s bamboo forum, it gets too much caught in ‘I just prefer bamboo no matter what’ kind of discussion.
Am I making any sense here? ::)
People who have never cast a good & light 8ft bamboo rods need to cast one when they run into one. With a good rod I do mean the one that are considered by the bamboo community: Brandin, Wojnicki and such. Or even a Dickerson 8013, but real Dickersons are valuable rods (these rods are made around the 2nd WW) and cost around $6500+….
Now I think of it, it’s like Windows users saying Macs are no good while they have never really used one. Not just fiddled at at Walmart. 😎
That’s a good and funny analogy (macs and pc). And I personally have never cast a good light 8 ft bamboo. But I don’t have $6500 lying around either……………….
Greg
Well, the Dickerson is obviously not meant as an example that the better rods need to be $6500+ but to show that great rods were built many many years ago.
The value of Dickerson rods went through the roof as short as some 10-15 years ago?I’m sure there are many makers who make an excellent copy of the 8013 Dickerson rod for a fraction of the price.
What I’m interested is, since the rod making conditions are the best they have ever been (best available tools, internet making sharing info a breeze, best synthetic glues available, etc.), how good a rod are the current crops of bamboo rods these days? How can they be a true alternative to modern graphite rods?
…What are their limits, what are these rods good at, what does the nostalgic ‘sound’ of bamboo adds to the fishing experience, etc.
The bamboo rods being made today are probably the finest ever. As noted, the materials, glues and such have allowed tremendous strides. Hollow-built rods, like my Boyd 8′ Dickerson 8014 Guide taper, are not nearly as heavy as they would have been decades ago. Modern adhesives and finishes assure more strength against delaminating and better waterproofing.
But the rod is a tool, like any other. Lee Wulff caught huge salmon on a 6′ bamboo rod. I personally don’t see the bamboo “debate” as any different than a similar discussion between Sage and Scott, Orvis and Thomas & Thomas. It’s all personal. It may work for you, it may not. Same for any rod brand, or particular rod in a brand lineup.
I appreciate the craftsmanship of bamboo, and the organic feel of it. Like Zach, I rarely take my bamboo in boats, usually only if I’m alone. In graphite, I prefer a moderate to moderate-fast rod, so at my basic fly fishing preference level, I guess I am a suitable candidate for bamboo.
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