This Is Fly – photography article
- This topic has 79 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated Oct 8, 2009 at 6:23 pm by
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Its really difficult for guys like us Aaron. Exposure doesnt pay the gas, the gas you need to go get the pictures. Yet, somehow you need to be able to “get your foot in the door”.
Im constantly evaluating my pictures against “Pros” and Im constantly seeing how much I need to improve. But you know what, most of them are doing the same thing. Your never going to be “good enough” or at the top of the game…Only the exceptionally few get to that point.
How do you start getting paid?
Wish I had answer for that. Did I get lucky or did I earn what I have through being able to produce photos that are “good enough” and then working at it. By that I mean working, not getting better shots. Weve discussed here numerous times what types of photos get bought.
Its not always the *best* photo, its the photo that fits the article/style/publication. Understand your ‘clients” needs, their content, their “seasonal requirements”..A simple example might be does publication A tend to publish cold water more than warm water?
If you get in with A focus on what they do.Best peice of advice I got was to stop thinking about “this” as a hobby with Gravy and start thinking about it as a business. People who stick with the former will eventually fail and fall by the wayside. People who treat it as a Profession will earn some measure of success.
When I start feeling down or frustrated (and trust me, I feel that alot) I think about how far Ive come in 1 year. Im listed as a “photog” for a major pub, have some others wanting my submissions, a couple covers and very shortly something alot of pros work a liftime for and never acheive. When I look at it like that, Im happy and realise how fortunate I am.
Look at where you were 1 year ago, look at wher you are today. I remember your photos when you first started and Im telling you Aaron your photos today are great, and that you have everything you need to succeed at some level.
Networking/Contacts and yes exposure are what you need now. Get something and build on that.
Just checked this thread again and what an interesting turn.
TIS is what it is. I usually give it a quick scroll. Sometimes I like it a lot. Other times, not so much. The fish pic article frankly didn’t do too much for me but I know the guys who wrote it and they’re straight up good doods.
Regarding getting paid, it’s really a matter of perspective vs use. For someone in JayMoor, Brett, Aaron or Corey’s position, being asked to display photos you have already taken in the hopes of getting exposure is often a good decision for if you leverage it well. (Yes, me too,=)New photography is another story and conversation). Hopefully you leverage it so well you have so many paying jobs come in you wont have time for the freebies and more trades just don’t do it either.
Aaron buddy, you surely brought your A game on the WCA and rooster trips . Your photos are kick ass!!! brimming with originality and perspective so get yer pecker up brutha and remember that talent & ambition will often get you the first calls, then competence & confidence help make the love go round after that. Keep up the good work!
DB
There is some great dialog here… I’ve learned a thing or two, thanks.
Aaron what a bad deal! Sorry that happened. I’m sure it will come back to you ten-fold down the road. For just starting out [like you said, 2 years ago] you’ve quickly started to break in, you’ve already had a feature in one of the most well-known protog’s e-zine mags, published in print rags, many online blogs, sites etc…. all of this is a huge early success…. your already doing it! I think the long haul is making the best out of these flip flop times. Perhaps a steady plug is always better than a random act of brilliance. Keep shooting, keep fishing and it will come. I’m looking forward to seeing your work for years to come.
As for TIF content and style…. I like it. It’s diverse and takes a youthful approach to fishing, which is appealing to me.
Aaron, you start getting paid when you ask for the money..
I would assume if you have been given the opportunity to ask the question, your shots are worth it.
www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Aaron, you start getting paid when you ask for the money..
David beat me to it. You start getting paid when you demand to start getting paid.
Didn’t mean for the post to go the direction it did. I’ll say this, I see TIF in the same light as a punk rock zine. There are often multiple contributors and on occasion a few ads to help cover costs, but no one is in it for the money.
TIF is starting to get a good number of sponsors, but who knows what kind of rates they are getting at this point. Maybe it really isn’t enough to pay out anyone. Then again, I’m only speculating.Besides, we’re basically creating content for this community by participating in the message board and I see a big fat Scott ad at the top of my page. No one’s complaining about that.
http://society6.com/grainfarmer Fly Fishing and Landscape open edition Photography prints.
http://grainfarmer.vsco.co/ iPhone photos
http://instagram.com/chad_simcox InstagramDidn’t mean for the post to go the direction it did.
I’m kind of glad that it did go in this direction .. I have had this conversation a couple of times in the recent past .. and its been interesting to hear the opinions.
The punk zine comparison is a pretty good one.
The people that put TIF out get paid by advertisers and it drives sales for retail operations that are associated with TIF Sponsors or investors. Don’t be afraid to ask for money! The whole exposure thing is just a way of scamming you and getting something for free. Take it for what it is a insult!
Besides, we’re basically creating content for this community by participating in the message board and I see a big fat Scott ad at the top of my page. No one’s complaining about that.
disclaimer: this was a failed attempt at a sarcastic remark.
http://society6.com/grainfarmer Fly Fishing and Landscape open edition Photography prints.
http://grainfarmer.vsco.co/ iPhone photos
http://instagram.com/chad_simcox InstagramI really don’t have anything to say about not being paid to do a piece……………..I just wanted to add that TIF’s mix tape was the best shit they have put out so far.
Amen.
Hey guys –
This conversation is getting into an area that needs to be taken offline. Publisher/writer disagreements aren’t really appropriate to be airing out here.
It is very common for startups to pay nothing or very little. I have never been paid for any of the work I have done for one of the clients I work with. I keep sending them work because I like their product. Simple as that. Not every client is created equally and not every client is equally able to pay; you just need to supplement your “charitable” work with paying work for other clients.
Best,
ZachPS I should also add, I have another client who paid me nothing for several years.
Zach, you’re in a position to do it as a “hobby” and can afford to give work away. For some its a full time ‘lifestyle” living.
Morsie
Guys –
Haven’t been here in awhile but read this entire thread with interest. The question asked several times about “how do you break in without giving some shots away” is a tough one.
When I started this gig back in the mid 90’s there were only about 20 fulltime photogs that were shooting hook and bullet stuff. There also weren’t many newcomers because pro film and developing were $17 a roll. With diminished barriers of entry, it is really tough to get noticed in today’s crowded digital field.
That said, there was a really good piece of advice handed down earlier in the thread about treating your photography as a hobby v. a business. The best advice I ever got was from Denver Bryan who said “things will start happening for you when you learn to say “no”.
At that point I divided my “client” list into moochers and players. The moochers dropped off my radar and the players were the ones I pursued. Now, this doesn’t mean that you should NEVER give a shot away for free/cheap, but you need to carefully weigh each decision. After a lot of years, very few of the clients that I did “exposure” work for ever came back as players. When the rat learns that he can avoid the shock AND get the cheese, he’ll never run the maze again. Free work leads to more free work, and most bankers don’t accept credit lines for mortgage payments.
If you’re serious about the business, then take time to learn the business and price your work accordingly. One of the biggest falsies I hear, these days, is “I’m just an amateur, my shots aren’t worth as much as yours”. There is no such thing as amateur pricing. If someone wants to pay you for a shot, then swing for the fences, and we will all benefit down the road.
Like someone else said earlier: these no-paying e-zines are a bad deal for the photography business, and they’ll continue to lower the industry bar and beg free work as long as we allow them to do so.
Thanks for allowing me a minute on my soapbox and my door is always open if someone needs help/advice with pricing, etc.
TB
There actually is a ASMP rate for web usage but I don’t know what it is. If a e-zine or publication can’t pay for content it means that they are not viable so what is the point of proping them up with free work. They need to get funded by the market or borrow money like everybody else.
There actually is a ASMP rate for web usage but I don’t know what it is. If a e-zine or publication can’t pay for content it means that they are not viable so what is the point of proping them up with free work. They need to get funded by the market or borrow money like everybody else.
Very good point, David. And if the industry is truly switching from print to online, then all of us will soon be faced with a sink or swim decision if the no-pay entities become the norm. Everyone needs to demand payment for their words and images. Pro or hobby, it doesn’t matter, but it’s crucial for the health of the photojournalism business that you be fairly compensated for your efforts.
Last week I read an article about the need to throw out the term “freelancer” and change it to”feelancer”.
Sounds good to me.
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