Spey Line Recommendations
- This topic has 25 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated Nov 16, 2009 at 10:06 pm by
.
-
Posts
-
Hey Guys,
A couple of years ago I got a TFO Pro Series two-handed rod; It is a 6 wt. 12″6′. To go with the rod I purchased a Rio 6/7/8 Windcutter w/ tips. I used this rod on the White R., but it was ugly. I have tremendous difficulty casting this rod. So, I am wondering if it is my complete lack of spey skills or maybe the line I chose. After some reading, it seems that Skagit heads are easier to cast. Does anyone have any line recommendations or any advice to offer so I can effectively use this rod?
Many thanks,
DustyDusty,
Skagits are a little bit easier to cast, but that is all relavent to what you are doing. For that rod I would go with a Rio 425 gr skagit or the AFS 5/6. With the skagit I would get the floating #7 skagit tip and a type 3 and type 6 15ft. sink tips for a 6wt. and maybe some T-14.
Mike,
Typically, the rod is, or would be, used on Southern tailwaters for average sized trout and various Bass species. None of my local waters are big in comparison to other waters one would typically fish with a spey rod.I think the Windcutter is 450 grains, and I have a ten foot and twenty section of T-17. Aside form these I also have an SA 250 and a 350 gr. Streamer Express line. Could any of these, or combos of, be useful?
Thanks Mike!
D.Eric,
Not that I am trying to argue as I clearly do not understand the spey world well, but if you are using a 450 grain on a 7/8 rod, would that not be too much for a 6wt.?
Thanks,
D.T-17? Do they even make it that heavy?
Yep, got it at BBT in Baldwin a few weeks ago. All thirty feet is 510 grains, and twenty feet is 340 grains.
Then I would add the T-8 or T-11 to the windcutter line?
D.Right.. thats why i said i would give a second vote to a 425 grain head. 🙂
Oops! Should have read more carefully.
You should read this…
“This style of spey casting utilizes an even shorter head length spey line than the WindCutter – something in the region of 27 ft. This exceptionally short head length allows the fly caster to make long casts in extremely tight situations. Even the most basic of spey casters can make a 70 ft cast with no more than 3 ft of room behind. Added to the shortness of the line is the fact that the head weighs about the same amount as the corresponding WindCutter, but at half the length. This means that the Skagit line has almost twice the weight per inch of the WindCutter line. This extra weight per inch is an immense asset for lifting out deeply sunken tips or heavy, large flies. Nothing will pick up big flies or T-14 or LC13 style sink tips as easily as a Skagit line will.”
http://www.flyfishingoutfitters.com/p/s/viewitem.aspx?pid=LNS-SPE-SKAG-VER
It sounds like the windcutter is quite a bit different in design than the skagit. Thats the problem with this whole deal.. there are no industry standards for the line weights, and it makes the whole thing really confusing.
Beyond that, you need to take the head length of the skagit divided by the grains – 450/27.5=16.4 grains/foot. So leaders for a 450 grain head need to be less than that to work the best, how much less depends on the length of the leader to a certain extent.
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/rio-skagit.htm This site had alot of good info on it too.
PS>
i think you have to much rod for what you are wanting to fish. you say trout and smallmouth, so a 4 wt. spey would suit you better.275 to 300 grain line, closer to a 6 wt. single hand, a 4 wt.is the lightest spey made to date.
Hey guys –
First of all, I’ve fished that very rod in the White. It isn’t overkill there (though in many streams it certainly might be, Bill). That would also be a great rod for the white bass run on the upper White near Fayetteville.
That said, you have that rod WAY overlined. The Windcutter 6/7/8 is theoretically a short belly, but if memory serves it has about a 56′ front taper on it, which is a lot of line to be handling as a new spey caster with a light, short spey rod. I agree with these guys that a Skagit line would be best. I’ve thrown that rod with the SA XXD (non spey – horrible combo), the Windcutter 5/6 (which was also too much line) and the Rio Skagit 6/7, which I think has been rebadged as a 400 or 450 grain line. I agree with all the guys above: the Skagit is definitely the way to go as a new caster.
Zach
Thanks guys for this info. It is very helpful. Two more questions: based on the info on Flyfishusa, should I go with the Skagit Flight Shooting Head or the Sakgit Shooting head?
And as far as the connection, does it go dacron to skagit line to T-11 to leader?I really appreciate y’all’s help!
DustyJust the standard skagit then add the tips. If you get the flight you would have to buy some shooting line as well. Just stick with the standard skagit. The connection goes backing to skagit, then your tip, then leader.
I believe a 12′ 6″ rod should be able to handle a Windcutter line, but a Skagit would be a little easier to cast – though the technique of Skagit casting is a little different. It is a water-based cast, so after your back sweep you have to let the line settle on the water a bit.
With a Skagit, you’ll have to retrieve a lot more line after each cast, and you’ll then have to manage the line. Also, Skagit lines can be a little “noisy” on the water. A quieter line would be the AFS, but it can’t handle the big flies the way a Skagit can.
Before you turn away from the Windcutter – which many people feel is a good all-around line – I’d try to see if you’re suffering from some casting defect which can be easily corrected.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I bought a shorter-head line thinking it would cure my casting, but it didn’t.
That’s my two cents.
Randy
Before you turn away from the Windcutter – which many people feel is a good all-around line – I’d try to see if you’re suffering from some casting defect which can be easily corrected.
Randy-
You are more right than you know. I am certainly not an accomplished Spey caster. In truth, it frustrates the hell out of me. I have bought the Gawesworth/Rio DVD series, read numerous web pages, etc., but it has not stuck yet. I have been told that part of my problem is I am practicing on still water, denying myself the benefit ofI just wanted to add, if you guys are looking for a great single hand spey line, check out Wulff’s Ambush line. I have it on my Z-Axis 9′ 5wt and it is an awesome line. While on the trout stream, I never throw overhand anymore. Keep the fly in the water = catch more fish.
Dusty,
Don’t know if you saw this Rio line recommendation chart:
http://www.rioproducts.com/photos/file/Old%20Spey%20line%20%20recommendations.pdf
Also:
http://speypages.com/speyclave/
Randy
Hi
Massive amount of heresey to follow:)))))
The idea that short head lines like Windcutters and Skagit are somehow good beginner lines is BS.
Skagit lines- Skagit lines require a casting tempo and approach that is very different from more conventional DH lines – so in a lot of ways are a special form of DH line. The technique for maximizing Skagit rigs isn’t easily transferable to more convential DH type short/mid/long belly lines as the mechanics of loading the rod/line are a bit different.
Windcutters are not easier/harder than any other DH style line they are simply short belly DH lines. That have a place in the line arsenal like any other line design concept in other forms of fly casting .
I have Skagit lines/short and mid belly and tournament long bellies /Floaters /sinkers/intermediates- all have a place and time None are better/easier they all have different characteristics and need adjustments to casting style and technique.
Figuring out what fishing situation you need to match the line design for – dredging big rabbit strips/skating Bombers is more important consideration along with a good match of line weight with rod -than ideas like beginner line or………
DH rods are a bit more forgiving than might be expected- a 475 gr line can be cast just fine even if a 425 gr might be optimal.
If you are having the line pile in front of you and it’s not hugely under/over weight for the rod and it doesn’t sound like it is- then look at- casting / tempo timing and with short belly lines the amount of head outside/inside the tip.
Derek Brown ( masterfull caster) has a fantastic vid ( old) that has a basic DH casting timing concept – Waltz timing – Lift 1-2 Set 1-2 etc etc that is pure genious in learning DH casting that gives a solid foundation for learning any DH cast single/double/circle/snap/whatever………..
When I got into DH stuff a bunch of years ago- I picked up both Derek Brown and Simon G’s vid/Dvd and Simon G’s book- for what it’s worth I learned FAR!!!! more from the Derek Brown vid about basic foundation concepts that stuck across learning a number of DH approaches and styles.
hope that helps
Will
Will-
I truly appreciate your input, though I must be honest in saying that I do not completely comprehend it. But perhaps I can be a bit more specific as to how I use this rod: It is used primarily as a Southern Tailwater trout rod, but I do use it also in search of LMB, SMB, White Bass, etc. So, while I will chase small trout in tailwaters, I will also try for bass species, most often in still waters such as lakes and ponds. I love being able to throw fifty or sixty foot roll casts, on the off chance that I can make it happen. And you could very well be correct in that the major issue is not the line at all but likely my casting. I was just feeling that I had overlined the rod, which was confirmed by many, or that the rod was not up to what I was putting it trough, as if I were asking too much of it. So, the next logical progression was to geta new line, and if that did not work, perhaps a new rod that better suits my style and tempo.Thank you all for your input.
Dusty
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.