so I got a new camera…

[Philip Smith]

Through a strange turn of events in a long and largely uninteresting story, I became a new owner of a Canon XTi SLR with the standard 18-55mm kit lens last week. I’ve been saving for a DSLR and was going to go with a different model, but in the end I made the decision to save some towards better glass. I am going to be helping a local photographer this summer with some portrait work just to learn some tips from a pro, but portraits aren’t really my game.

As you may or may not know, I’m not a seasoned photo vet and do not have a ton of brain devoted to acronyms and complex knowledge of photography, but I like to think I have a pretty good eye and am a quick learner. I’m operating Photoshop 7.0 so the software expense is taken care of for the most part. I’d like to hear from the fishing photography experts on lens recommendations for me. Not a $20,000 list of “must haves”, but a good starting point. I do a lot of landscapes so I’m thinking about a wide angle lens, but also thinking about a 28-105mm in like an F2.8-4 as a go to lens. What do you guys say?

Here are a few shots I snapped with the new camera over the past couple of days. I haven’t had time to do a lot of photoshop work on any of these yet…

Thanks for any suggestions.

Also, I’m going to need a waterproof pack. Ebay has had some decent deals on the Simms Dry Creek waist packs. But I’ve also been thinking about that waist pack sold in Feathercraft’s catalog that is waterproof. Not sure which way to go. Any suggestions?

[Anonymous]

Looks like you are well on your way to not needing tips from anyone!

I particularly like the last two.

[dusty montgomery]

I’m not a seasoned photo vet and do not have a ton of brain devoted to acronyms and complex knowledge of photography

I hear ya. We need the pros. here to provide a key for those of us not in the know quite yet.
Regarding the bag, I keep my gear in a cheap rolltop, but the good stuff is still placed inside a Pelican for extra insurance. I got them at Wal-mart, three or four of them for the price of one Simms. I am hard on gear, so this seemed the best route for me.
Dusty

[John Bennett]

Grats on the new toy Phillip.

When it comes to lenses theres a multitude of choices and thats just the Canon name brand, there are also Sigma and Tamron to consider.

What separates a kit lens from a consumer grade from a $1,500 24-70 f2.8L or $2,000 16-35?
Everything from optics and build quality (plastic vs metal) to f/stops to features like IS. All add to or subtract from the cost. Generally speaking the wider a maximum aperture you want the more its going to cost. Example a 400 f5.6 cost about $1,100 the 400 f2.8 about 5,000.

You also want to factor in whether you want a WA or walk around. Some one who wants a WA might opt for the 16 -35, or 17-40L, someone else might opt for 24-70 and so on. Would you favor fast glass or IS. An example of this dilema is the 24-105 f4 IS vs 24-70 f2.8.

When it comes time to start deciding on lenses to get there are alot of factors to weigh. My best advice is use the 18-55 kit for a while and develop a sense of where your taste lie. You might find your a WA shooter and look hard at the 17-40 f4, or you might find you want fast glass rather than IS. Dont let us lead you, discover for yourself where your interest are.

The kit lens will serve you well. You can use that while you discover where your preferences are and in fact get some lenses that fill you out more like 70-200s or 70-300 consumer or macro and so on. Then you can think about replacing the kit lens. The one thing you want to avoid is buyers remorse.

At a certain point (price) you cant buy bad lenses, you can buy expensive lenses that don’t suit your style or needs.

Im a fast glass guy. I want the fastest lenses possible for any given focal length. I prefer the option of a shallow depth of field when isolating subjects and I often the need the higher Shutter Speeds aforded by fast glass.So I would naturally have a predisposed bias towards them

50mm 1.4 or 1.8
85mm 1.8
24-70 f2.8
70-200 f.28

Doesnt mean they are right for *you*.

[Philip Smith]

Thanks a lot. I tend to shoot a lot of shallow depth of field myself. I also shoot a bunch of long exposures since my passion in fishing is native brook trout and those high gradient streams and waterfalls are so much fun at 1 to 3 seconds. I also like macro shots…bugs, flowers, etc. So a macro lens would definetely give me the close up macro as well as the shallow depth of field shots, but the few times I’ve held a camera with a wide angle lens in my hands I was blown away with the possibilities.

Not really sure what a “fast lens” delivers. Can you elaborate? Somehow I don’t think that necessarily means shooting a lot of shots in burst…which I don’t really do.

I’ve never made a dime off of any of my photography and don’t know that I ever will. Although a 8X10 print I recently donated to a TU banquet brought $225.00 at auction. In a dream world I’d like to sell enough shots to pay for the equipment, but I don’t know that what I like to shoot is overly marketable. So I guess what I’m saying here is that my price range is sub $500. I saw a Sigma 28-105mm for around $300ish that I was looking into. A local photographer told me to stick with the Canon lenses for this camera and yet another photographer told me that the Sigma’s and Tamrons were pretty good. I’m confused.

[dusty montgomery]

Phillip,
I was asking similar questions a few weeks ago. John, Labrati, et al weighed in with some useful info. It may do you some good to look back at previous threads where these guys were offering other neophyte advice:
“My first DSLR!”
“D200 vs. D80”
Dusty

[John Bennett]

Phillip thats part of the problem that I was alluding to. People usually will suggest what they prefer irregardless of whther or not it suits the “buyers” needs.

Sigma/Tamron/Canon.
*Myself* I’ll only consider Canon with the exception of macro lenses. That said, there are some S and T lenses that likely are worthwhile and they cost about 50% less than the comparable Canon lens.
Is there a difference in end product. Yes I think so but a large one? No I dont think so. So for a person who doesnt plan on selling or printing posters why not save 50%??????

Fast Glass.
Meaning lenses with wide maximum apertures. It allows more light to hit the medium (sensor/film), hense the term faster. So a 70-200 f2.8 is faster than the 70-200 f4.0

I tend to shoot a lot of shallow depth of field myself. I also shoot a bunch of long exposures since my passion in fishing is native brook trout and those high gradient streams and waterfalls are so much fun at 1 to 3 seconds.

Heres a good example of what everyone needs to decide for themselves.

Canon 24-70 f2.8 appx $1500.00
Canon 24-105 f4 IS. appx $1.400.00

Discounting any marginal IQ differences

If you prefer the shallow DoF you might opt for the 24-70 f2.8, but then again if you like long exposures of mountain streams where light tends to be low and if your bushwhacking to get there you might not want to have to carry a tripod, so IS might be high value to you. Not to mention the 24-70 f2.8 is a brick and very noticeably heavier than the 24-105.

My body, 24-70, 180mm macro and 85mm 1.8 are what I carry to streams/rivers. They weigh a bloody ton and its a workout…Not to mention my waders, boots, fanny pack (fly boxes) and rod…………….

In your shoes Id use the kit lens and consider either a 70-200 or 70-300 and/or a macro.
Its a pretty decent wide angle starter lens that will allow you to fill out focal lengths you dont have.
In the time it takes to get those you’ll develop your taste and discover your needs then you should look at replacing the 18-55 with any number of lenses in the 17-100mm f2.8 to f4.0

[mike j]

Good glass can take years to acquire, often though, when you get the good stuff you will be suprised where it can take your skill…

I’ve never been a huge fan of Tamron, they make some nice stuff.. but Tokina and Sigma have provided some great glass and often at a significant discount compared to the name brand stuff.

If you can live without Image stabilization and an ultrasonic motor.. the Tokina 80-200 2.8 is an AWESOME lens.. and you should be able to find it just north or right around $300-$350…

[Eric DeWitt]

First of all, don’t discount the kit lens, its not bad, as the images you have shown have proven.  Your also making the right decision in spending less on a body, and more on glass.  I wish someone would have told me that 5 years ago.  IMO, the glass is alot more important to image quality than the body.

I have been shooting with the 24-105/f4L IS for almost the past year, and i love it.  I orignally ordered both the 24-105, and the 24-70/f2.8 from amazon ( they have a good return policy, so if you can’t make up your mind just order a couple and try them out).  For my shooting, i thought the IS outweighted the extra stop with the 2.8.  And, if your on your feet, like someone else pointed out, the 24-70 is a HUGE lens, not the easiest to carry around.  

If you like the shallow depth of field, take a look at the canon 28/1.8, (about $250 or so) and the 50/1.8 (less than $100 i think).  The 50/1.8 is the best little plastic lens you will ever buy.  Super sharp, small, light, and great color.  Both of these lenses will give you the shallow depth of field.

http://lucidarc.com/Photoblog/index.php?showimage=37  This was the the 50.

For the wide stuff, the canon 10-22 is great too.

[Philip Smith]

Was this with the 50?

http://lucidarc.com/Photoblog/index.php?showimage=55

Geez, there is like – no depth of field on that one. Thanks dude. Good advice from all. Gotta start saving some coin. I think I like the idea of IS, particularly for longer exposures on those high gradient streams. I normally carry a cheap tripod with me, which is a real pain. If I could get by with shooting 1″-2″ shots by bracing on my knees with an IS lens, that would rule.

I shot another 200 or so shots last night of my kids at the state capitol building. The kit lens does pretty well. I’ve got the monochrome shots down to a freaking science they are so easy.

On the body thing, that was what I found out through researching. I had a pretty good deal on a lightly used Canon 30D, but it was still more than a new XTi with kit lens so I decided that ease of use in function was not really worth the extra money to me. I also don’t really care for live view anyway, it seems to burn up battery.

Thanks again to all of you guys for your advice.

[dusty montgomery]

Philip,
Does the XTi do all that you need in a camera, or do you find yourself wanting more features? I only ask b/c I am new also and still on the fence regarding which body I am going to purchase.
Dusty

[John Bennett]

Phillip IS will only do so much for you.
IS reduces ( not eliminates) camera shake. So basically it comes down given X amount of light, your shutter speed will be Y. If Y is below your threshold to handhold and keep it steady IS *may* prevent shake.

For long exposures such as creamy water you want the shutter open for seconds….not fractions of a second. The general rule of thumb for the average person 1/focal length…So if your at 24mm you should be able to hand hold for 1/25th of a second and avoid shake. A 4 second exposure? IS wont do much for you. Not to say it cant be done but I wouldnt bank on IS or shell out for it. bring your tripod if thats what your after, or better yet buy a manfrotto self standing monopod. I bring that sometimes, it does well as a camera support and can stand on its own and can pull double duty as a walkking/wading staff.

The best Ive managed of a long exposure not on a tripod is 1 second.

Likewise if your shooting action where you need high SSs a lens with IS isnt doing anything for you either.  Where it will pay dividends is if your around the threshold of hand holdability. IS is insurance, not a bullet proof vest.

So if your walking along the bank and see a fox close by. You meter 1/50th @ f4, ISO 400 at 100mm. You should be able to take the shot. Another lens without IS would have to a) open the lens wider (may not be possible), bump the ISO ( might introduce noise depending on the body) or use a tripod. Did you bring one, do you have time?

Being on and around streams means forest canopy and as such light is intermittant, low, non existant.
But then again having f2.8 has advantages as well, like getting higher shutter speeds to “freeze” action without having to bump ISO or the narrower DoF than an f4 or f5.6.

Or f1.8

Its all about tradeoffs, enough to give you head aches.
I hemmed and hawed over which of those 2 to get for weeks and weeks trying to decide which ws right for me. Until you get more time under your belt I would avoid a major lens purchase. You wont buy a “bad” one, you might buy the wrong one “for you”.

Im not a big IS fan. I think its a great feature but its pricey (same lens without IS would sell for about half) and over hyped by sales people and makers.

I love the marketing hype action shots that are blurred…..the without IS shot and then the crisp “with IS” shot…
lol
🙂

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&RequestPartner=Google&productId=1002546&gclid=CI3rgfqm4JICFQTWsgodwgq3_g

If the “shooter” didnt have enough shutter speed to avoid shake, they didnt have enough to freeze the kayaker.

[Eric DeWitt]

That was with the EF-S 60mm macro, on a tripod.

[John Bennett]

yeah macro is another kettle of fish 🙂
I struggle to get decent keeper rates. I want to buy some tubes to add to mine or sart using a reversed 50 but each time I think about it, i think about how hard it is to control the DoF with the bre len. Adding either of those just amplifies the problem….Time under my belt.

I’m pretty sure Eric that the 24-105 is the newer generation of IS so its 3 stops. Older lenses like the 100-400L are 2 stops.

Phillip just to clarify, while I may not be “a big fan” of IS it is great to have..its just not the be all and en all manufactorers/sales clerks make it out to be. If you shoot at all from boats or toons is absolutely wonderful. But until you find out where/when you might favor one feature over another you cant really know for sure.

One thing I didnt factorin when I first started buyin is how much some bodies and leneses weight and while it might sound funny to suggest a 2pd lens will weigh you down…Trust me, it all adds up.
For people like us that spend alot of time in the outdoors and are active (maybe hiking 5miles) or whatever weight should factor in as well…etc,etc.

[Philip Smith]

You know, I’m really lucky then. I normally shoot long exposures with a tripod, but I have occassionally gotten some really great 1″ to 2″ shots ‘freehand’. Always does better with a pod though. Here are a few of my long exposure shots…

http://www.vandaliarodworks.com/brookiestreams1/index.html

The 8th picture in that gallery (Oct_07fixed.jpg) is actually freehand on about 1″ exposure…and with a digital point and shoot $100 Samsung camera if you believe that.

I definetely won’t be sucked into buying lenses just to be buying them. I am just trying to gather some ideas to be thinking about for a while. I work for state government in one of the poorest paying public employee states in the union so I’m certainly not going to hemmorhage money just for fun.

Dusty, thus far it is doing what I want to do. One thing that I did on my film SLR that I haven’t figured out exactly how to do with the digital yet is multiple exposures on a single frame. I guess with digital the concept is to take several shots and combine them post production with software, but I liked being able to do it right on the camera before. Some of the reviews I’ve read on the XTi vs. the 40D were that the 40D was more ‘user friendly’ in terms of functions. Personally, I’m not having any trouble with finding functions and changing up stuff like white balance, shutter speed, etc. Maybe I’m too simplistic in how I shoot stuff or something because I’m missing this ‘complicated’ thing.

In case you are interested, here are a couple of galleries of my kids that I’ve shot with the new XTi in the past couple of days…

http://www.vandaliarodworks.com/blackwhite/index.html (Note, the easter egg picture was not with the XTi)

http://www.vandaliarodworks.com/portraits/index.html

[dusty montgomery]

Phillip,
Those are great shots of the kids! Glad to hear the body is doing what you want it to. Makes me lean toward a similar purchase and pot the savings on new glass down the road like so many here have suggested.
Dusty

[Eric DeWitt]

John makes a good point about size and weight.

[John Bennett]

Im going out with a Turkey hunter on a shoot in a few weeks. Trucking into the woods at 4am and out at noon. So I need everything from my 85mm f1.8 for set up shots at 5am, 24-70 f2.8 for staples, 180 f3.5 for some close work, 400mm + TC for long shots plus accessories.

Due to some unknowns (blind size) I’m going to have to pack my full kit as well as my tripod, and monood.

[Author]

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