Rod Flex Index

[shane cavitt]

Being new to fly fishing, I like the idea of Orvis’ Rod Flex Index. It seems a little easier for me to grasp than descriptions of medium, fast, etc… Also, it seems a little less subjective to me and could help in comparing different rod makes and models. I understand that the preferred way is to cast a rod and compare rods side by side prior to purchase. In a lot of cases that is just not the reality for a lot of folks who do not have a fly shop(s) close by or their local shop only carries a few makes of rods. Having somewhat of an objective measurement could help people make decisions with a little more confidence when they cannot test cast/fish a rod.

I am considering purchasing an Orvis rod. It seems to me that Orvis is the only rod manufacturer that offers different actions in each model of rod. You can get tip flex or mid flex, etc… I have never seen a Z-Axis listed in different options for action like that. I am curios as to how some of the other rods would fit on the Orvis Flex Index. For example, I have a 9′ 6wt Sage FLi and it is listed as Med-Fast. Where would it rate on the Flex Index? What about a Z-Axis? A BIIX? What about a TFO Pro? If anyone with experience with these rods could rate them according to the Flex Index I would appreciate it.

[Zach Matthews]

Shane –

It’s not quite as easy to simplify rod action as this, unfortunately.  I don’t even think the guys at Orvis would want you to use their flex index to compare other types of rods without looking at some other factors.

Here’s why: flex and speed are different.  You can make a rod that is very stiff but, once bent, slow to snap back to a straight line.  That would be a ‘stiff’ rod and a ‘tip flex’ but it would not be a ‘fast action.’  (Generally, it’d also be cheap and heavy: many older graphite saltwater rods fit this profile.)

Conversely, you can make a rod that is very flexible but also very fast.  In fact, that has been the holy grail of rod design in the last five or so years: some of the best rods on the market right now are more flexible than their predecessors while *also* being faster at snapping back to a straight line (examples: old Sage XP versus new Sage Z-Axis, G. Loomis’ old GLX versus the newer High Line Speed rods).  These are the Ferraris of fly fishing and can be the most difficult to control for a new caster.  They’re also very powerful rods while remaining flexible enough to fight a fish properly.

You are correct that Orvis is the only manufacturer offering different flex profiles within the same line of rod.  However, this is basically Orvis’ nomenclature rather than a new innovation.  Where Orvis might call a rod a Zero Gravity and have it offered in full, medium, and tip flex profiles, a different company would likely just split those up into three separate lines.  (For example, Scott’s X2s saltwater rods are mid-flex while the S3S saltwater rods are tip-flex, but their graphite recovery speed is very similar).

Your 9′ 6wt. Sage Fli would probably grade out as a mid-flex, medium-fast rod on Orvis’ scales.  It’s in the middle of a wide range of rod actions and a good rod for a new user.  The Sage Z-Axis would also be a mid-flex rod for the most part, but it would be much faster in terms of recovery speed (because it uses a lot higher modulus graphite, which tends to snap straight as fast as it can).  The Z-Axis would be a lot harder rod for a new caster to handle than the Fli.  A Winston BIIx is as stiff and fast a rod as Winston makes, but Winston is known for slow, flexible rods.  It is similar to a Z-Axis; flexible but very fast.  The TFO Pro is a great rod that can best be thought of as a Sage XP made with slower graphite; it is a tip-flex but not as fast actioned.

Keep in mind too that flex profiles are only good for the rated line weight and an arbitrary amount of line out of the tip-top (probably 30 feet).  If you overline a rod, it will obviously bend more with the same amount of line out, because you’ll be putting a higher weight line on it.  At the same time, if you carry more than 30 feet of line (or whatever the number is), then again the rod will bend deeper, because once again there’s more weight pulling on the tip (this time because there’s more line out).  

My advice to any new caster or learning caster is to use a medium-fast, medium-flex rod.  That way, you’ll get familiar with the widest possible range of casts and casting conditions without ingraining muscle memory too far in any one direction.  It is possible to use a fast action, stiff rod as a casting crutch, which will make it harder for you to move to slower or lighter weight rods later.  On the other end of the spectrum, lots of people who learned on bamboo still complain that graphite is too stiff and fast.

Best,
Zach

[shane cavitt]

Thanks Zach for the very thorough reply. You brought out some points I hadn’t thought of before. Very informative for me.

[bob bolton]

Shane,

Very complex subject which Zach explained very well. If you want to dig deeper or have trouble sleeping at night you might want to google Common Cents which is Dr. Bill Hanneman’s approach or look at the rod index on Sexyloops.com seen here http://www.sexyloops.com/eric/database/rodtablesorted.php
or read my stuff on http://www.hatofmichigan.org/e-book.html under the Mechanics of fly casting.

Also a book by Don Phillips called The Technology of Fly Rods is excellent. I am not really big on rod flex indexes or on rod frequency but they have their place and it is something most people can understand. But beware, the experts are not even there yet and the only way to really tell to to cast a few. And Zach is definately right, stay away from fast, stiff rods until you are a good caster and are reaching out long or casting big stuff on the salt.

Godspeed,

Bob

[Roy Conley]

Shane –

 A Winston BIIx is as stiff and fast a rod as Winston makes, but Winston is known for slow, flexible rods.  
Best,
Zach

Correction, the newer Winston B2MX is the fastest rod Winston makes and the B2X is next.  

Zach, if you like faster rods with good feel through the grip track down some of the B2MX rods and give them a try.

Roy

[Zach Matthews]

Roy –

Yeah, I’ve thrown them – I tossed them at the FFR last September.

[Roy Conley]

Roy –

Yeah, I’ve thrown them – I tossed them at the FFR last September.  I like the new BIIMX rods; I just wasn’t sure if they’d gotten fully distributed yet.  Also, frankly, when you have covered as many rods as I have you tend to forget a few in all the alphabet soup.  🙂

Zach

No kidding! To keep things simple here we only own Winston green sticks.

[mark sikora]

The flex index is complete BULL.
There is no constant in the system some mid flex are stiffer than a tip flex and so on.
Don’t get me wrong the Helios is a earth shaker and the Clearwater 2 is a great value rod.
But I find the flex rating confusing to everyone.

Go to a shop cast the rods and buy the one you like.

[adam taylor]

Go to a shop cast the rods and buy the one you like.

Best piece of advice.  It is a subjective situation.  Fast/slow/mid whatever it might be….does not matter.  If you can cast it well, feels comfortable, then that is the right rod for you.  There are a lot of very good manufacturers out there besides orvis…although few are better at marketing.  my .02

Oh and one other thought…to get the best performance from the rod…you need to match the line to it.

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