New Macro Setup – Help Me Out

[Neal Osborn]

I would appreciate some advice from the experts on my new macro setup.  A bit of a quandary has arisen in regards to my current camera and it’s technical limitations.  I have a Nikon D50 camera body and my primary lens is an 18-200 VR.  After much help from Zach here at home I just purchased a good quality used Nikkor 60mm AF 2.8D lens (ebay).

Here’s the issue – I want to setup at least two flashes to bounce light but my D50 built-in flash is not good enough to act as a master for a remote flash setup.  Kenrockwell.com has a great review on this topic and apparently I have two options.  One is to buy a Nikon SB-800 flash and mount it on my camera as a master and then get an SB-600 as slave. The other option is get a Nikon SU-800 remote commander and get two SB-600 flashes.  Keep in mind that I plan on upgrading my camera to at least a D300 in the next two years but for now it will have to wait based on current funds.  The D200/300/700 all have the ability to be a master so this issue wouldn’t even be applicable in that setup. However, I need some flash now.  My concern is the cost of the SB-800 and the fact that it will have to stay mounted on my camera to act as a master which will limit my creative lighting ability.   Soooo . . . what would you do in this situation?

Primary goal:  quality pictures of my flies
Secondary goal: macro nature photography

[Chad Simcox]

As much as I get disgusted by the almost cult like followers of the the website, it’s a great resource.

Strobist.com

This will point you in the right direction. I think your best and cheaper option would be to get some Gadget Infinity Cactus V2 triggers and 2 used flashes.
I use Sunpak 383s for my speedlights, but those have since been discontinued. They were less than $100(each) new. The V2 triggers were maybe 50 for the transmitter and 2 receivers.

Please don’t start calling yourself a strobist after reading the site.

http://society6.com/grainfarmer Fly Fishing and Landscape open edition Photography prints.

http://grainfarmer.vsco.co/ iPhone photos
http://instagram.com/chad_simcox Instagram

[Zach Matthews]

D50 doesn’t run the SB-600 as slaves; I had forgotten that.

[Neal Osborn]

Thanks guys, that helps.

[Ben Cochran]

You may also want to consider the Nikon R1 or Nikon R1C1 Speedlight flash system. I have the R1C1 (with the SU800) and added a few more SB200’s which allows me to also use it as an amazing ringflash, I used it on a shoot just a couple of days ago. The SB200’s also have settings for 3 groups and 4 channels which make it great to control the lighting when using the SB900, SB800 and SB600’s. I was shooting with 4 SB200’s on the R1 as a ringflash, 4 SB800’s (1 through half gradient umbrella, 2 through soft box with half solid, 1 reflected off silver umbrella and then 2 CTO SB600’s as back light. I only write this as the SU800 allowed me to adjust the intensity of the different groups from the camera, this saved me a tremendous amount of time from making all of the manual adjustments. It is not radio so, around corners is a different beast [ch9786].

The lighting from the R1 and R2 is amazing and they also come with stands so that you can remove them from the ring. The other great feature is that if you decide to mount them on the ring, they are at the very end of your lens and are adjustable. One more thing that I love about these lights and love to do, you can take the ring off of the lens and have a remotely triggered “off camera” ringlight as well.

If you opt for the R1C1 “with the SU800” remember that the receiver need to be pointed towards the SU800. If you need to have lights fired from behind or directly next to you, the SC28 alows you to take the SU800 off of the camera and reaches out to 9’, also maintains support of TTL.

Finally; for macro photography, IMHO, the R1 and R1C1 with the SB200’s will perform better than the SB600, 800 or 900’s for this application. Here is the R1C1 at B@H http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410481-USA/Nikon_4803_R1C1_Wireless_Close_Up_Commander.html  I know the it may seem coastly but look at what you get with it, in the items included.

[John Bennett]

For your flies another option and probably cheaper is a commercially made light box.http://www.boothphoto.com/lkits.cfm?P=26 or something similiar. Gets you going until you replace your body and get new flashes

For outdoor work there are a dozen ways to go if not more.
Dedicated macro flashes
Ring lights: Flower shooters like them, bug shooters dont. Expensive
Twin lights: Bug shooters like them, albeit tricky to set the balance. Expensive

Flash brackets.
Theres DIY and there are commercially available ones.
I use a RRS 87B. Largely because its a good bracket for all my needs not just macro. With any bracket there are pros and cons.
Pros: Get the flash off your body. Allows you to position the head such that the light hits your subject, not your lens.

Con: weight and balance. I originally planned to buy a second flash mount head to fit the bracket. Scroll down here http://reallyrightstuff.com/flash/05.html bu with just my normal flash its already heavy. A second flash head would add alot of weight, make it that much more unwieldy and lastly bugs get spooked. The less you prod at them, the better.

[Neal Osborn]

Thanks all, I now have enough information for at least a week of reading.  I appreciate the seriously detailed replies.  

Ben, that link to the ring flash system is great.  Seriously good deal if you do the math, that’s a lot of equipment for the money.  I am going to look in to this.

[anonymous]

Neal

The ” strobist” option is basically an

[Neal Osborn]

Could I use the SC-28 flash cord and attach it to a SB-800 off camera and then employ a second SB-600 flash as slave?  Seems like this setup would work but I don’t have much experience with the SC-28 flash cord.

What I like about this idea is having two flashes that could also be used for everyday shots.  When I upgrade my D50 it will go to my wife who takes pictures as a realtor and then I would also have a flash for my new camera.  Seems to be more “practical” in the long run.

[Ben Cochran]

Yes you can, Neal. It would work perfectly and is really one of the features that it was designed for. It will work fine on macro but I would still recommend the R1C1 system for the type of shooting that you defined earlier.

To expand on your last question more. You can attach the SC28 to the SB800 and not only use its strobe, you can also set that SB800 to be the wireless master for many additional SB600’s or 800’s.

[Neal Osborn]

Thanks Ben. And thanks to all.

[Ben Cochran]

Just an added note for you Neal, you don’t loose all practicality with the R1C1. Here is a bit more about the R1C1 setup, of which I strongly recommend over the R1. You can always upgrade your camera later but you will not need to with this. It will give you the professional lighting that you need and is very light, portable and versatile. The other things that I would suggest getting are some of the table top point and shoot adjustable tripods $5.00-$15.00 each (you can screw the provided R200 stands onto them and adjust the angle of flash). The entire kit also comes with separate pouches for all of the kit so that you can also fit it into a camera bag, if you chose to do that but the provided case is very strong and sturdy, also has a top compartment where you can add several of the table top tripods.

Think of it more as a miniaturized studio lighting system as you can set the lights in the same manor as one might use them for professional portrait shoots, for macro photography. The R200’s even have built in modeling lights, with automatic shutoff, so that you can focus in extreme to no ambient light. This feature really allows for some extreme dynamic lighting shots.

I read the reviews to better address any issues for you. Someone mentioned the rings and how one would have to purchase them separately… The R1C1 has all of the rings so, I don’t know what this person is talking about as I have used this on my 105VR, one that the reviewer said no rings were provided for yet, I used the provided ring for it and it is the same one that fits on your 60mm. The rings for all of the Nikon Lenses are provided with this system.

The applications, of this system, are truly endless and are one of my favorite investments in lighting. On a humorous note: It is the same flash system that they use, attached to the lens, in crime scenes on the show; “CSI NY” lol

Even if you decide to get an SB600 later, you still get far more bang for the dollar this way, IMHO only. 🙂

[Neal Osborn]

Thanks again, Ben.  So here’s the deal (. . . and now for the rest of the story, ha).  My wife is usually pretty cool my purchases but for some reason she is not buying in to this need for flash.  However, once I told her it would help take better house pictures for her clients she was all over the idea.  So I need to throw a bone to her so to speak.  Would the R1C1 setup (without additional SB-600) work as a flash system with our 18-200 lens as applied to house pictures for a real-estate webpage? In other words, I love the idea of the macro flash setup but I also need to please the goddess.

[Ben Cochran]

I am with you there pal. [ch9786] My ex used to tell me that I had a problem separating my wants from my needs, now I have a rather profound and unique way of finding and defending a way of needing what I want LOL.

I want to help you out here but had to think about this for a bit. I decided to approach it as if I was hired to shoot for you guys and this is how I would approach it. I would “not” show up with just the R1C1 as I would not be able to get all of the shots that I would want. I could get some dynamic shots but still I would want to at least have 1 SB600 but probably more. It will fit on the 18-200 but for what you are talking about you need more than just the 2 SB200’s

The thing about photography and professional images as well as professional quality images is in the lighting. You have a great camera and as has been said before, it isn’t the camera as much as it is the photographer. This is true but the separation of photographers is through their use and study of lighting. One can learn every single detail about a camera and still have only average images. Take the same intensity of study and apply it to lighting and climb the ranks of paid assignments, the camera is secondary. I know of several published professional photographers that used the D50 on published images, the only difference is in their use of lighting.

Granted it is great to get the latest bells and whistles, in our camera equipment, but it does not make a photographer better. To really maximize the potential of your camera, get and study lights as well as lighting. After this, your wife will have some of the most amazing real estate photographs on her site [ch9786].

The only reason that I upgrade my equipment is due to some added features that help me do certain things easier and the demands of larger files from my publishers and now agencies are moving to larger minimums. Other than this, a jpg from my cameras would look just as good as if they were shot from your camera; shown on the computer. Again, this caveat, with the same type of lighting/strobe effects: The lighting and shadow to light ratio makes the shot. So, adding flash to your equipment will help maximize your skills and potential of your camera.

Hope my rambling helped some 🙂

[bruce norikane]

… My wife is usually pretty cool my purchases but for some reason she is not buying in to this need for flash. …

If money is an issue, for macro photos of flies – subject small and stationary, camera on tripod – you could do just as well with a DIY macro studio.  Good flash gear is more important when you have to light large subjects from far away, or when you are shooting moving subjects.

See Paul Dieter’s fly studio which allows him a tremendous amount of back and front lighting, using one ordinary light bulb and some small reflectors.  Make sure you follow the other links on the page to see the new, improved version and tutorial on how to make one.

http://homepage.mac.com/riverwader/tying/Personal24.html

There are a lot of simple DIY macro studios on the web.  Most can use either continuous or flash lighting.

For the real estate web photos, I think the SB800 has a built in slave that can be triggered by the D50’s flash.  That would give you a great on or off camera flash.  For the real estate photos, you probably want some standard flash accessories like a light stand and umbrellas.  The Strobist site has a lot of good info on those.

[Ben Cochran]

Neal, I have been thinking about this a bit more and if I was in your position, I would go for the versatility of a SB800, 1 SB600 and the SC28 cord. This will give you a great amount of versatility and be more practical for everything that you have described to me.

Zach has an excellent setup for macro photography and his Softbox/scrim invention is beyond cool! I would use his macro studio over one of the photo box kits everyday and any day, I hate those studio kits. One thing that I would add though (I won’t recommend this as it is UNSAFE), brucenorikane remind me of this, sometimes I will use one of those arm desktop lamps and place a 4000 Kelvin bulb in it. I sometimes use this to light up the background, as it is close to the same Kelvin of the strobe flashes. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS BULB!! It will get very hot, very fast so, I only turn it on just before I take the shot and then turn it back of immediately!

Using those cool inventions, that Zach keeps coming up with, and his same style of macro studio… I know that you and your wife will be much happier with the versatility of your new lighting system. By using the SC28, you can take that SB800 off camera and use the strobe as well as set it up as the master. Kind of kills me that people turn the strobe off and use the SB800, on camera, as a master because it also means that they had to purchase one extra strobe to use off camera in its place…

For the indoor real-estate shots: You can just use white foam board to bounce the slaved strobe for fill light into the darker areas. It works OK for a better control over the amount of flash shadowing from just an on camera flash.

[Neal Osborn]

I finally made my decision on a macro setup: Nikon R1C1 with a separate SB-600 flash.  For tax purposes I can write this off because it will used for medical photography and there is a device company that is very interested in purchasing the photographs for print.  I retain rights to the pictures and will use them in my lectures; thus it made sense to go with the R1C1.  

Ben – thanks for the detailed comments you made earlier, it helped me to hone in on what I needed.  Also, my wife is more than happy with the SB-600 flash for her photos.  The clincher was realizing I could use this setup in my own business; unfortunately nobody here wants to see what I take pictures of at work :-[

The learning curve is very steep at this point but I am already amazed at how easy it is to get this system up and running with just a basic understanding of flash.  PLEASE send me any links with “user-friendly” instructions on how to setup master/slave flash, the instruction manual is horrible.  Also, do you have any recommendations on a go-to book for macro photography or a webpage with some good examples?  Feel free to comment on the shots below.

Pewter Pea Pod, 1.5 inches length, Nikon 60mm f2.8 at 6 inches.  SB-600 on the side with a flash diffuser and tan filter.

Just for laughs

First attempts at flies.  BTW, the midge is size 24; parachute size 20!  I am about 3 inches from the subject. Nikon 60mm f2.8, used the SB-600 under the subject.

I am also impressed with this flash setup for close-up portraits.  

[Zach Matthews]

These are looking very good.  Now some tips on the world of Macro photography.

(1) Remember, when your subject is only inches from the lens, the equivalent depth of field you might be used to for say f/11 or f/16 is greatly contracted.  You didn’t get the entire wooly bugger in focus.  Your 60mm Micro-Nikkor (if you got it in?) should be able to handle mechanical apertures down to about f/32 and artificial apertures created by extending the front element all the way to like f/54 (I think that is the highest I have ever seen).

(2) Backgrounds don’t necessarily all need to be the same color, and flies don’t always need to be on a vise.  One of my favorite fly backgrounds with good lighting is an all-black sheet, but it will need to be a long way back in order not to catch light from the R1C1 setup.  Also, be sure to frame to fill the whole image.

[Ben Cochran]

Congratulations Neal! Good shots and love the dog shot, shame about the wood brace in it but now you see first hand that you have more versatility, plus you have much better images that you would not of had if you just went out and purchased an upgraded body.

Don’t forget that you can also take the R1C1, or just the R200’s off camera and fire them remotely as well. The included defusers work great too!! 🙂

I will be more than glad to help you out in anyway that I can. If there are a lot of questions, we can do it by phone as well.

[Zach Matthews]

Oh now if they are able to fire remotely Neal may have more ability to handle the black background shot than I thought.

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