Flash effect on scales?

[John Bennett]

Still trying to work on and improve some things. For situations where you want/need to use flash, anyone have some good tips? Diffusers? direction?

Fill against a rising sun. Not bad

Nice Chrome but obviously flashed

Favorite sequence from this weekend

Fish on!

DUCK!

A pair of grins

Anyone have standard flash settings like -2/3rds or -1 1/3 plus flash head direction tips for scales?

[Zach Matthews]

The trick is mostly to angle the fish so that no part of it is horizontal to the lens; that way it won’t blow out when the flash bounces back.

Also, John, just from an editorial perspective, I will tell you that while these images are looking really good, the ones of the guy holding them out of the water at chest level would probably be unsellable.

[John Bennett]

Thanks Zack.
Id considered playing with the position of the head much like I would when bouncing the flash but am completely unsure about results and given the number of possible postions……… 🙂

Re lift and grins.
Yeah am aware of that but its difficult working with strangers despite what you ask. The moment you ask if you can take a shot or two 99% immediately go with what they know…:) By the time you try directing them you start running into quick release…

So thus far in order to practise and experiment I’m just letting the anglers do “their” things and not intruding, taking what I can get. Often my shots are secondary to their own.

Best case is to find/go with an angler who knows both what I’m looking for and whats best for the fish

Edit
On cropping. I’m getting completely away from cropping. Virtually everything I do now is full frame as per the request of the AD I’m dealing with. They want the RAWs and freedom to crop themselves. Basically I was aked not to crop unless I felt it was absolutely necessary. I have started compiling 3 files for him. The RAW, a minimally adjusted jpeg in low res and another low res processed and cropped to my liking to give him a take on how it might be used, but am leery of doing that too much given I was asked not to.

.

[Zach Matthews]

John –

Either I misspoke or you misunderstood me about cropping.

[John Bennett]

Zach,
Thanks so much. Theres more wisdom and help in that than I can express. It give me answers and tools for alot of the hurdles I’ve been encountering. Even something as simple as bring my own net…(like I dont have enough gear packed in my back pack to begin with ) 🙂

Don’t ever worry about advice. I still feel like I have a long way to go and no matter at what point I’m at its still a learning process and there never any harm in it.

As for the net advice that resolves another item. I love nets with good woodwork and have one of my own I adore…How better to get my net in the pictures than to provide it. Sure beats hemostats and aluminum nets with bad mesh.

Somehow I think hes been caught more than a few times.

[Anonymous]

Quick question on one of the side issues of this thread.

Zach…who is determining what a “proper” picture is?

[Zach Matthews]

Tim –

There are reasons behind all of the “rules” that have been laid down (or at least told to me) by my various editors.

[John Bennett]

Tim theres alot to consider. So much so it makes my head spin at times. If you have back copies of various mags handy go back and read letters to the editors..there are often letters griping about fish handling in the photos for but one example.

A simple and extreme example occured to me two weeks. I saw in my eye a gret image of an older gent fishing. Everything was there. Light, backdrop, a guy that oozed character..I was framing the shot when he turned more to face me.

He had a smoke in his mouth..I put the camera down.
I regret doing so now as it still would have made a fantastic image but the moment I saw that my mind registered unsellable.

J

[Anonymous]

It makes sense.  Especially when you think about having to fit in titles, text, column space etc into and article and in and around a photo.

Tim –
I have never swapped a bait-caught fish for fly caught.  It’s a personal line.  I have never even published a bait-caught fish in a fly fishing article (yet – there are situations, like exotic species-example shots, where I’d be willing to do this, so long as no claims were made in the caption that the fish was fly-caught).  If there isn’t a fly in the fish’s mouth, though, who’s to say that the fish was fly caught?  (In point of fact, even with the fly in the mouth, there’s no guarantee, but most editors would hit the ceiling if they learned that a bait-caught fish had had a fly added.  They would much prefer to leave it out in that situation and retain a shred of credibility).

So the fly in the mouth thing is meant to assure the audience that the fish was caught – and more importantly is *catchable* – on the fly.  Obviously, the photographer has to be at least mostly honest to make this assumption valid.  :)Zach

I remember a year back or so on IA there was a thread that talked about switching flies that a fish was caught on and putting a more visable, colorful fly in the mouth of the fish for photography sake.  Arent you in essence sacrificing credibility and authenticity by doing this?  

While photographing a bait caught fish and posing it as a fly caught fish is completely off limits (I agree that is a major line in the sand)…I think switching flies is, to a MUCH LESSER degree compromising the integrity of the scene, article, story and photo.  I would prefer it be presented as it was.

If he or she thinks he’ll be getting letters for running a picture of a fish caught on a pegged bead, or held too high out of the water, or held incorrectly by the gill plate, or lying in the dirt on the bank, or just dead and being grilled, the editor will pass.  All of those examples would be totally acceptable in the bait fishing press,
Zach

It is amazing when you pick up a 2 color, paper periodical at marina’s and other locations…some of the photos in there are sad, comical, terrible, and crazy to think about the extremes.

[Zach Matthews]

Tim –

Regarding switching flies, yes, there is a sacrifice in credibility.

[Anonymous]

Magazines are, frankly, not important enough to cause people to go into throes of angst if they learn that what is printed is not what was.  Magazines are entertainment.  Keep that in mind.

Zach

Well said. Fair enough on the fly swapping.

[Ben Cochran]

WOW John!! I love the second shot, of the Salmon! Don’t be so afraid of the flash look though as I think that shot is brilliant! I agree with Zach, about how it needs to be closer to the water for sellable but also, it would add even more to the overall image. Only thing that I might suggest, snoot the flash. With the snoot you can close in the radius of the overall flash and also have a much better gradient around the perimeter of the snooted flash. Having less light on the anglers hands and letting it blend to darker, at that point, will better allow you to make this crop work better. n(just my opinion though) I really love that shot though!

[John Bennett]

Thanks Ben.

Are snoots similiar in nature to a better beamer?
I use a BB on my 400mm when I want fill for birds and wildlife. I guess it would differ from a snoot in so much as it double the flashes output allowing for further distance. With that I manually set the “zoom” on the flash to 50mm (depsite a 400mm lens) as it widens the flashed area as opposed to making it beam like and typically set FEC at – 1 and 2/3rd to compensate.

the other thing Ive put some minimal thought to is employing and off body flsh bracket. Again with wildlife getting the flash off the shoe ( you raise it above directly over the lens barrel) changes the flashes trajectory and removes or reduces the likel hood of red eye in animals and birds (steel eye).

J

[Ben Cochran]

Hey John, I really do love that shot as it reminds me a lot of Joe McNallys Ballerina shot. He limits the fill, in this shot, by using an umbrella and a flag on the lower part of the umbrella to get the gradient light correct.

A snoot can be used to further limit the amount of light spill but even though it consolidated to more of a beam, it does not increase the intensity of the beam. If you want to get an even more consolidated light flow, glue a lot of properly stacked black straws together and place them inside of the snoot. The snoot can be made with a simple 8.5″ X 11″ sheet of thin black foam and sealed with velcro strips that run the length. The black straw grid works best with black straws as the white forces the light to bounce around to much inside of the snoot.

By adjusting the strobe, the effected gradient is effected for a much better shade blending effect. I hate to see hot shoe strobes on camera’s so, we are in agreement in getting that thing away from sitting directly on top of the lens 🙂

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