Conventional Tackle
- This topic has 15 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated Oct 5, 2010 at 4:12 pm by
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Specimenrods are normally named TC = Testcurve.
Testcurve is the amount of weight tied to the rod tip to gain an angle of 90 degrees from the rod.For instance. FOX 12″ carmaster excel 2,5 pounds is a standard carp rod for fishing medium size carp, casting weight up to 80 grams, distance up to 150-200 meters.
Im not really sure if that is what you are looking for
But hope it helps.
/AllanI’ve never heard of the system they apparently have in Denmark, but here in CA, most rods go Ultra light, light, medium light, medium, medium heavy, heavy, extra heavy. or something to that nature.
Basically, walk into Wal-Mart, pick up a rod, shake it around a bit, and think to yourself, “yeah, that’ll huck my 1/2 ounce egg sinker and power bait 50 yards out there.”
I don’t think there is a true standardized system like in fly fishing, but I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again.
Zach, i would be happy to help you with any questions you might have, I split my time between fly fishing and conventional tackle. Its just better suited for certain situations. typically you are using rods adequate for the bait that you are fishing.
Species wise here is what i typically use with spinners
Ultra light – 1-6lb line 1000 or smaller reel – for trout & panfish w/inline
spinnerslight 2-8lb line 1000 size reel- trout fishing with small rapalas
medium light 4-10lb line,
I’ve never heard of the system they apparently have in Denmark, but here in CA, most rods go Ultra light, light, medium light, medium, medium heavy, heavy, extra heavy. or something to that nature.
Basically, walk into Wal-Mart, pick up a rod, shake it around a bit, and think to yourself, “yeah, that’ll huck my 1/2 ounce egg sinker and power bait 50 yards out there.”
I don’t think there is a true standardized system like in fly fishing, but I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again.
Hi Tyler.
The system, TC. i belive was invented in the UK. (Not Denmark 🙂 )
Here is a further explanation
http://www.barbel.co.uk/site/articles/rodmaking/chapter3.htmlRegards.
/AllanOk so how about couple species, then? If I wanted to catch stripers up to 30 lbs. in rivers, or redfish up to 20 lbs. on the flats, what would I need? Has anyone tried the new TFO conventional gear? I saw it at the show and it looked very nice.
Zach,
An interesting and complicated question. Are you planning on giving the dark side a try? Although it’s used a lot, conventional tackle is really the wrong terminology as it implied Fly tackle is unconventional, which it isn’t. That said and in an attempt to keep this really simple, there is Fly tackle, Spinning Tackle and Bait Casting tackle if one considers only the slinging of artificial lures (flies, spinners, hardbaits, softbaits, etc.). Species concerns are irrelevant. All three tackle types have a lot of variables, but are designed to present the lures in different ways. We all know about fly tackle so I won’t go into that, but Spinning and Bait Casting tackle are designed to cast lures using the weight of the lure as the impetus for the cast. A generality that has many exception is that Spinning tackle is generally used for lighter lures and lines and bait casting tackle is designed for heavy lures and lines. As with Fly Tackle, line weight (in pounds breaking strength) and rod action (very fast to very slow) influence how a rod performs with any given lure weight and style. Unlike Fly tackle, the mechanical reels (spinning and bait casting) have a retrieve ratio that influences how they fish (X:1) X being the number of bail (spinning) or spool (casting) revolutions per handle turn. The faster the ratio ((6:1) on some Shimano spinning reels), the faster a lure can be retrieved. With slower ratios, slower, more subtle retrieves are possible. Spinning tackle is easier to learn to cast error free, but casting gear allows for stouter rods and lines although casting heavy lures backlash free takes some practice.
In reality, there’s not much fishing difference between the three types of tackle. It’s all about putting the right lure in front the fish. One can cast a heavy conehead streamer with an ultralight spinning rod just as easily and accurately as one can with a 7wgt. Equally, a #1 Mepps spinner can be cast well with a 7wgt.
You might find it very useful to review either the annual Cabela’s or Bass Pro fishing catalog which will give you a very good survey of all the available rods, reels, lures, etc. that can be combined to put lures in front of hungry fish.
Good questions.
1) Think of flipping (swinging a very heavy jig (1/2 to 1 oz)) into heavy brush or logs. The rod needs to handle heavy line and a heavy lure. Not much different than Czech nymphing (swinging heavy nymphs into deep runs). There are flyrods that are optimized for that type of fishing.
2) Indeed both spinning reels and casting reels can technically be used on either type of rod, but they are not designed to work effectively that way. The key difference is the guides and their placement along with the action of the rod. Additionally the rod handles are optimized for each type of reel.
Take this concept a bit further. I recently did some light tackle articles and had the opportunity to fish with professional bass anglers. What an experience. If you want to learn tackle, your favorite warmwater lake and just how to pattern fish-book a trip with one these guys. I catch more bass species on the fly than I ever have. Even in colder months. Has any had the same experience? Any one have a fly equivilant of the Shakey head? I am using alot of meat whistles similiar to the jig and pig with great success as well.
light 2-8lb line 1000 size reel- trout fishing with small rapalas
Now that’s how you catch alot of trout around here. On some of my home rivers the guys that do this will out fish a pro streamer fisherman 5:1 or better.
I build mostly fly rods but I also built spinning rods (primarily for inshore flats fishing). Once I got into the types of conventional rods I found it was mind boggling. For example, I build on Batson Rainshadow blanks a lot. If you go to their website you will see they have 8 series of fly rod blanks. Then look at the conventional blanks. There are 26 different series of blanks. That is over 3 times as many as fly blanks and their fly blanks cover about everything but fiberglass and bamboo.
http://www.batsonenterprises.com/
It is a mistake to think you can walk into Walmart and see just about everything there is in conventional tackle. That is just cheap stuff for novices. Serious conventional tackle fishermen are as particular about their gear (and spend as much) as fly fishermen. It is just that a higher percentage of fly fishermen are “serious” compared to conventional fishermen, but there are a hell of a lot more conventional fishermen.
Again, from a builder’s perspective, a blank can be built as any of the three types of rods. I even have a 7’6″, 8wt built about 15 years ago (before the current bass fly rod craze), that was built on a light spinning rod blank. Once the rod is built, however, it is either a fly rod, a spinning rod or a casting rod. The grip, reel seat and guide setup are particular to the type rod it is.
There are three important ratings on the rod, line test rating, lure weight rating and action. Line test rating a lure weight rating tend to track the same with small variations in different rod types. The term action is the same as in fly rods and relates to flex characterics and recovery rate.
For example, I use 7′ popping rod blanks for saltwater flats spinning rods. It will have a light tip, medium-fast recovery rate and be more mid flex(something like a 7.5 if you used the Orvis scale). A 7′ bass rod of similar line weight and lure weight have a faster recovery rate, stronger butt and would be more tip flex (more like a 9 on the Orvis scale).
So, you can see, that once you dig into it, there is a lot more variation in conventional tackle rods than there is in fly rods. One thing I find very interesting about conventional fishermen, they don’t like multi piece rods. I really can’t figure this out with modern ferrule design. All of my spinning rods are either 2 or 3 piece, which is very unussual.
A rod that does both stripers and redfish on the flats well is probably not going to happen. The baits are just too different in size- for those big river stripers you’ll be throwing 10″+ plugs or similar sized live gizzard shad, but for reds in inches of water you want to be able to throw light baits that land very softly. If you want a rod that does double duty, you’d probably be better off getting a rod that can do both fish on the flats and black bass/trout.
Some other things to consider:
1) I like copolymer lines much better than mono. Much stronger and more abrasion resistant. Also, less line twist. And if you are like me, and use fly the vast majority of the time, you will apprecaite not having to replace the line every time you take the spinning rod out.
2) One piece rods are much better than multipiece rods. Get these if you can deal with storing and hauling these around. Rod sensitivity is much more important that with fly rods since you won’t (usually) have your hand on the line like in fly fishing.
3) Longer rods seem to give more control.FWIW: I have two conventional rods; both St. Croix spinning rods. One is a 6’6″ light (4-8lb) rod and the other is a 7′ medium (8-17lb) saltwater rod. I usually have 10lb proline line on the light rod and 17lb fireline on the saltwater rod. I’ve never broken the line on a fish with these lines (though I’ve straightened a bunch of hooks). I like these rods pretty well, and they cover a lot of my fishing situations (>85% flyfishing, fishing in GA, VA, TX for all warmwater fish (a little for trout), flats and surf fishing in TX, FL, MA). The downsides are: the medium rod is too heavy for the flats, but a little too light for river stripers (though it does decent there and is good in the surf); both rods are multipiece; the action on the light rod is too slow for my liking; I’d have gone 7′ on the light rod, but wanted to be able to reach the tip top while holding the other end and sitting in my kayak.
Good luck with the purchase. I think you’ll find that there are times when conventional tackle can improve your fly fishing by helping you locate and pattern fish more quickly. This is especially true of schooling fish.
Jason
Dave, Rapala countdowns will outfish streamers 7 days a week but its just not as fun!
Zach, my Striper and Redfish rod is a St Croix Premier 7′ heavy 10-20lb rod with a Shimano Stradic 5000 with 50lb power pro braid. Probably A 9/10 weight equivalent.
As far as spinning reels are concerned, the shimano stradic imho is a staple that is tough to beat for its price.
I have started to spool my spinners with power pro in the last year or two and i love it. it casts further, has no line memory and lasts for the life of the reel if properly taken care of. I add a barrel swivel and an armlength of the appropriate leader material if needed, or go straight to the hook if water is murky.
casting rods have a trigger grip and double footed casting guides all the way up, like your first guide on a fly rod. Spinning reels would not work on a casting rod.
Temple fork’s rods look good but for the money i would go with a st croix avid. It feels like a much better blank. I know that St Croix is not typically a heavy hitter in the fly fishing market but their conventional tackle is 1st rate in the industry imho.
Sensitivity is what you are looking for with conventional tackle so you would want to steer clear of multiple piece rods unless you were using it for travel (seems like most salt guides have them on the boat anyway though).
Ugly Sticks seem to work well for salmon and they are inexpensive.
I use spinning reels rather than baitcasters, although baitcasters are nice for fishing from a boat.
When I went out on the company boat this summer fishing for salmon with downriggers they were using St. Croix and Lamiglas rods with spinning reels.
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