Contract/License question for the pro’s

[Eric DeWitt]

Hey guys, i know there are a few of you that make a living at this stuff, and i was hoping i could bounce a couple of contract type questions off of you.

I just submitted a proposal for secondary architectural shooting of a for a very large architectural office and building owner.

[Bryan Gregson]

Have you already looked at fotoquote? –> http://www.cradocfotosoftware.com/fotoQuote-Pro/index.html

I’m curious to see others responses on this subject.

[John Bennett]

Eric in case he doesnt see the thread you should probably email or pm Douglas Barnes. He is definately one of the Commercial photographers on the board.

Stock, editorial, promtional.
When I’m offered an assignment compensation takes into account
Travel
Day rate/hours on location.
Post work
The “wish list”. The larger, harder the list the greater the comp is.

Regardless.
In return they get one year *exclusive* rights to all images from the shoot to pick and choose which they want to use when and how they see fit……until the year expires.

While I’m sure there some differences I imagine there are similiarities to.

[kendal larson]

John’s post points out the bulk of what goes into the negotiation, but I just want to emphasize it’s exactly that; a negotiation.

You may or may not have the kind of work for hire arrangement (or nearly that) which John outlined above. It might be that you agree to X number of photos to come out of the shoot that they’d have 1 year exclusivity, or perhaps you’d share copyright with them, giving them lifetime rights with the knowledge you could still license work from those they’d chosen as rights-free imagery.

I’ve seen all the above – or a simple day rate and then they choose which they’d like to license, and you base your quote there on typical factors (usage, duration, etc).

I guess the point is, one of the very first things I learned about the photography business when I began to research it is that the standard is there is no standard – only a variety of possibilities that you can pick and choose from to you, and your customer’s satisfaction.

Kendal

[kurt budliger]

“I guess the point is, one of the very first things I learned about the photography business when I began to research it is that the standard is there is no standard – only a variety of possibilities that you can pick and choose from to you, and your customer’s satisfaction.”

Kendal hit the nail squarely in my opinion.

[J A Y M O R R]

Have you already looked at fotoquote? –> http://www.cradocfotosoftware.com/fotoQuote-Pro/index.html

I’m curious to see others responses on this subject.

BG, are you using this?

[kurt budliger]

I’ve been using it for a year or so.

[J A Y M O R R]

Thanks Kurt.

[Corey Kruitbosch]

I find it serves as a good starting point for negotiations.

I have it also and it does serve as a great starting point to negotiate pricing.

[Eric DeWitt]

Thanks for the info guys, I did get the job, too!

[Douglas Barnes]

Hi Eric,

Sorry I didn’t see this until this morning. Crazy busy. (You guys, my fellow IA brethren, can call or e-mail me personally any time for this stuff- BTW) Looks like you landed the gig, awesome!

Regarding negotiations, I use ‘f’quote on a regular basis but it’s usually for published work, ie; magazines, billboards, bus boards, etc. with a printed ‘timeline’ so they have to buy ad space themselves. This process alone gets them acquainted with ‘usage’ early on so they expect to negotiate such term. And f-quote is great for this. Plus, the images that come from these jobs are often “re-sellable”, a very important point to consider.

However, clients like builders and architects, small businesses (read: local), models, actors, whatever, are simply looking for something to put in their portfolio or on their web-site and/or don’t have a large budget, and/or the images are essentially only useful to them (see below). Pulling out an f-quote number can completely put you out of the running in these cases. This is when I try to ask the question, (after hearing as many project details as possible),…”what’s your budget?” If they’re willing to tell you, and it’s close to the number in your brain, then you’re golden! If it’s a little low then show the value of your work vs the other guy, and maybe use the length or time period of usage rights terms as a bargaining chip to narrow it down or sell them up. If they’re way low, then you don’t want the job anyway. Right? And f-quote numbers wont help anyhoo.

In your example Eric, I would have suggested some semblance of a ‘day rate’ or two, and after getting the job, shoot the hell outta the development. Get crazy and creative.  Then gave them the CHOICE of their favorite, say 10 shots, per day, from a pool of 25-30 shots total. Perhaps tell them they have 1-5yrs ‘unlimited-exclusive’ usage for web etc, with NO third party usage (I can’t sell them to anyone else [as if anyone else wants to buy a picture of their buildings, ha, ha], and they can’t sell them to their vendors or subcontractors [which happens a lot]). My terms and conditions on every estimate/invoice state this front and center, right below the job description. If their subs want shots, then they pay for them after the fact and the client and I share the profit (usually try to I give them credit for their next project so they’re compelled to book me again…win, win!) My T & C’s also read that I always own the copyright, and that I may use my images for my web site & self promotion without permission despite the ‘exclusive’ wordage. Yes, clients sometimes ask me to hold off on that if there is proprietary info involved etc, but those folks usually have the money to pay for such an accommodation, or we have a relationship built where it’s not an issue (and I want future work from said client).

Hope this helps (and makes any sense, only 1/2 cup of joe when I started, on my third now). Contact me directly moving forward and we can chat, happy to do it!

db

Landing

[J A Y M O R R]

That is awesome insight Doug.  Thanks for sharing all of that info.  Good to know.

Nice work Eric.

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