carp

[Aaron Brown]

What’s your trick for really picky/spooky carp?

Been fishing a local lake, with a lot of carp. They have to deal everyday with bow “fishermen” and masses of spin casters throwing stuff at them. I have only ever had 2 hit (both of wich i promptly lost, naturally).

The water in the back bay is good sized and ranges from a few inches deep, to about 3 or 4 feet. They seem to prefer the 3 to 4 foot sections. I can see the puffs of silt from them rooting the bottom, and every once in a while I can actually see one swimming. The water is pretty turbid because of them, and the inlet of the feeder stream stirring up the silt. Lots of jumpers too. I’ve thrown everything from buggers, nymphs, carp candy, etc and even some of my own creations. Just can’t get these guys to take much interest. I’ve fished from my jonboat and from shore. Just can’t seem to do well. I’ve gotten several in rivers, and other lakes, but here they seem super picky! It very well could just be me.

Thanks all

[Tim Angeli]

Aaron,

It sounds like you’re describing carp during the spawn, which is likely why they seem less interested than most other carp you’ve encountered.  That being said, they will still take a fly.  There was a thread on here about spawning carp a while back:
http://www.itinerantangler.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1270128299/0

That should give you some options to try.  Good luck.

Tim

[Cameron Mortenson]

JP’s website http://www.roughfisher.com/ is a great resource for all things carp and brownwater.

[Aaron Brown]

Thank you all for the links. Roughfisher has some interesting patterns i’ll tie up tp try.

I’m not 100% certain of the reproductive ecology of carp, but it seems that the spawn should be over here in Ohio. I noticed spawning activity roughly a month to two months ago. I did somehow manage to hook up 1 during the spawn. I was surprised.

These guys are relatively solitary when they’re cruising along puffing silt. There may be a couple at a time, but doesn’t appear to be a spawning group. I did notice a couple this afternoon slurping the surface, but

[Tim Angeli]

I did most of my carp fishing when I lived in Michigan and the spawn there would usually last into July.  I assume it would be a similar spawning season where you are.  

Regardless though, I’m sure you can get them to respond to a fly. Crayfish patterns are always a popular choice for carp, and if you have hex where you are it would be worth trying a hex nymph pattern as they will be around in force this time of year and live in silty bottom environments (which it sounds like you have).  Also, a relatively long leader and weighted fly will be necessary to get down to mudding fish in 4 feet of water, which is something to take into consideration as well.  

Good luck.

Tim

[Aaron Brown]

Thanks Tim. Again, I’m not ruling out the possiblity of spawning by any means. Just seems that with everything else being so early here, compared to years past, it seems like they’ve spawned and moved on. But it would certainly explain the difficulty in hooking them!

No hexes down here in this particular lake. I have used hex patterns on a whim in a river and had really good results, though no hexes are in that stream.

For gear i’ve been using my albright GP 5wt, DT line with 9′ leader with a couple feet of tippet. Tried a WF for a little further distance but it spooks them when it hits the water it seems, and short casting is difficult with WF. I usually weight my flies, but not so heavy they make a loud crash into the water.

the 4′ water is basically just the channel where the stream enters the lake, the surrounding area is about 3′. Then about 2 ‘ to where the weeds and algae are present. I’ll get it figured out sooner or later. Probably later, as I’m moving in the next few days back up to north central Ohio. Then I’ll have a whole other mess of lakes to explore

[anonymous]

Chum chum chum chum chum!

[Gary Sundin]

Carp in muddy water over mucky bottoms are eating hidden things that they only find by randomly sucking up mouthfuls of mud.  I don’t think they’re particularly selective about flies, becauase they don’t see what they’re eating.  I think they get patterned on the feeding-by-numbers approach until they just aren’t acting much on any kind of visual cue.  Because of their own muddy habits, they can’t see more than a few inches anyway.  They’re opportunistic and if they pop up from the mud and see a fly gently descending right on their nose, they’ll eat it.  I try not to cast blindly on the mud plumes—it never, ever works and the fish are usually a foot or so away from the mud you see.  I try to get close, like rod length close, to the mud.  Wait until the fish “picks up” to move, then dap an unweighted fly right on their nose, if you can see the nose, or make your best guess.  If you can’t see at least part of the fish, it’s hopeless.  I fish 2-fly rigs often.  Mud fish don’t mind seeing some action, but they won’t pursue far because they can’t see far.  I personally don’t’ like weighted flies in muddy water.  Fish in 3’ of water are going to be tough and invisible. Go where the water is 14” deep.

[Aaron Brown]

Dave- i have been fighting the urge to over cast! There’s quite a few in this spot, so picking one is definitely necessary. I have a neat cray pattern i concocted a few months ago, i’ll send it your way.

Gary- you hit it right on the head. Thanks. I was thinking the same thing about them sucking up mouthfuls of mud in the hopes of finding something. That area is constantly muddy and i would imagine that seeing food floating by rarely happens to them. My flies aren’t heavily weighted. Depending on the type i may (if at all) wrap just a few twists of .030 lead. I found that if it floats too slowly the fish move right past it and don’t see it in time. Again, too heavy and a far cast can spook them with too much weight.

Regarding the mud plumes, my thoughts again too. I try to figure their direction and cast. I usually wait until i can see them out of the plumes before casting, but so much mud it’s hard. Seems like even when i cast in front of them from far, they don’t care. I’ve fished the shallower sections too. I’d prefer that, since it’s easier to see them, and the fly. They usually see me coming before i can even cast. Then again, that was with the boat. Sneaky bastards they are.

I’m a big fan of getting close if i can. At the Clear Fork branch of the Mohican, the carp are in there thick. You have to get close, and i generally cast from the bank. I’ve had a lot of luck that way. This being a wide open space is a bit hard to get to them, wading is a pain with all that mud, i sink up to my knees. Warmer weather means i can put on shorts in favor of the waders.

[paul rose]

Sounds like a carp challenge. For these situations stealth is the answer. Either stake the boat or post like your on a deer stand. Pick a spot with a back drop to cover your movements and shadows. Then do nothing but watch then watch some more. Pick your shots at feeding targets. Try dark flies with bright legs like a RLD.12 or 14 ft leaders will help you not look like you are throwing “rocks” at them. Spook a few and your done so be patient on the presentation.

[Michael Exl]

Use fluorocarbon and be able to put the fly a foot in front of the fish without making too much noise. I would stick with flies that are crayfish, damsel, or dragon fly imitations. Also go early if possible or right after a rain.

[Aaron Brown]

Thanks guys. I’m with you on the staking down the boat. i dropped anchor last time i was out there. These guys are just so hard to see with all the mud, even in shallow water. It seems like an uncanny amount of mud for one lake. Nonetheless, theones i see still seem just out of reach. My casting feels pretty good. I don’t seem to spook them.

Maybe i’ll try a bit longer leader. I’ve been using roughly 12′. a 9′ with 2 to 3 feet of tippet. Not flouro though. Would that make a big difference? The water’s so turbid they wouldn’t see it anyhow, or so I’d think. Or, is that just for extra ‘weight’.

Thanks for the tips, again. Unfortunately i just moved from SE ohio to north central ohio so this lake and the carp got the best of me. I will return, and I will get them! This is good info. for any other lake/carp though too. I appreciate it

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