Calling all camera guru’s
- This topic has 36 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated Nov 30, 2007 at 12:34 am by
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Probably keeping the other two on their toes if nothing else.
On the completely superficial side the lower end Canons just feel cheap to me. Sorry. Probably where I’d go if I was shopping for a pro rig though.
I think these are two very fair statements.
Certainly Canon and Nikon are the industry leaders, but Pentax has done some things that could potentially cause some “following”.
No Argument here… 😉 Just add some information.
Pentax, Fujifilm and (Olympus) are NOT samll companies… Switch to medium formate field they will say…”Hi! my little bothers, Nikon / Canon” ;D
Pentax 645 / Fujifilm 645 / 612 are very popular Automatic medium formate cameras for commercial photographers (I believe Pentax 645 was the first autocus medium camera…correct me If I am wrong, please). They are film, not digital though… I used both of them before and really love them… still keep the Pentax 645, a good portrait camera.
I would say,in the high resolution era nowadays (digital camera)… The borderline between 135 and 120 are much murkier… Who ever knows what they will come up with in a few year… (I already lost track of them…)
BTW, Pentax and Olympus have their full line of systems ready for pros. Some people interested in Micro photography should look up Olympus’s system… to my knowledge, they have the most completed Micro shooting system in the market.
Just for your reference.Hey Rusty. You’re getting some good advice here. Take your time making a decision, but also take all the advice you get on the net with a grain of salt. Nothing like getting a camera in your hands and playing with one. ‘Feel’ cannot be overstated.
That said, most other things can be overstated. For your purposes, any dSLR from any reputable company will suit your needs with varying levels of features and investment. Relax. You’re not investing in a tool that you need to make a living. You’re not buying a car. Find a camera that interests you now, today, and learn to use it. Any camera can take good pictures if you know how to use it to its advantages. You can reassess things later if you’re really going to get serious.
It’s like buying a fly rod. Have you ever caught a fish and given all the credit to rod? It’s not the technology that catches fish or takes grate pictures. It’s the man, they myth, the legend that is, or will become, Rusty.
I had a very long, very detailed thread going at dpreview.com. It helped tremendously, mostly because I had a very specific set of requirements and took the time to detail them carefully. Take a look. It’s long, but there are some really important details hiding in there: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1002&thread=25605035
I went Pentax after a long research period. To tell the truth, after playing with a K10D at a local shop, it was an eloquent email from Seafood that sealed the deal. Turns out we like the same sorts of things. Scott fly rods, Pennsylvania, and, now, Pentax cameras. (Dude, Seafood, two trips to the ER in the last few days. I PROMISE I’ll email you back soon…)
Good luck Rusty. Just remember, it’s just a tool. Go cast a bunch of cameras and see which one sings the sweetest. They all catch fish.
Ryan
Ryan I have to dissagree somewhat.
In photography, hardware makes a huge difference.
Im on my fourth body now having started with a Canon Rebel XT and each time I upgraded my body, my picture quality improved as did the kinds of photos I could capture.I tried for 2 years to get decent shots of Blue Jays in flight. In two years I did not have 1 keeper.
In the first two hours of owning my 1DmkIIn I got this.
virtually impossible without the right hardware.
I mentioned “noise” earlier. Different makers handle noise at high ISOs differently.
I cant and wont speak to the name brands I dont use or know well of but I will say that certain brands/models are not very good *comparatively* speaking.ISO 800. On certain brands/models many consider output to be unuseable.
ISO 1600
ISO 1600
ISO 800
Now, thats not to say other brands/models cant take good pictures but I know from painful, expensive experience that hardware makes a huge difference and regardless of your budget its all relative.
Why not make the right decision the first time?
I am sure the Sony and Pentax DSLRs are fine products, but why limit yourself to their options going in? So you buy a Pentax DSLR and next year you decide you want to do some wildlife or sports photography. Pentax, as far as I know, offers no AF telephoto lenses over 250mm. Canon and Nikon each have at least a dozen lens options that reach out over 300mm. Why limit your abilities (and vision) going into this thing?
If the entry level Pentax DSLR and the Canon 40D are comparable, the choice would seem like a no-brainer to me.
Why not make the right decision the first time?
I am sure the Sony and Pentax DSLRs are fine products, but why limit yourself to their options going in? So you buy a Pentax DSLR and next year you decide you want to do some wildlife or sports photography. Pentax, as far as I know, offers no AF telephoto lenses over 250mm. Canon and Nikon each have at least a dozen lens options that reach out over 300mm. Why limit your abilities (and vision) going into this thing?
If the entry level Pentax DSLR and the Canon 40D are comparable, the choice would seem like a no-brainer to me.
Agreed regarding Canon – but I’m not sure if AF needs to be “the” factor in that decision.
The only reason I say that is that I find I’m FAR more successful if I don’t *rely* on autofocus to get my subject correctly focused, and will frequently put the Canon L-series 70-200 IS I have into manual mode to ensure I’m getting “the shot.”
Frankly, we’re still smarter than the AI.
Richard for me it was the extra features that swayed me to buy Sony over Cannon. Nikon was too pricey. Konica Minolta had plenty of lenses out there from $20 to $2500 so I knew I could take it as far as I wanted to. I’ve spent lots of time doing R&D and have picked some really nice older lenses all under $300 each. They’re a little slower to focus and they’re old but they all work well and got fantastic reviews on most of the respected camera review sites.
Until I get a similar Cannon/Nikon Camera in my hands and see that it really is more Camera then user ability that make good shots I’ll stick with my cheaper camera.There is some regret for not buying Cannon I’ll admit that. However, I’m considering an upgrade already and the Sony A700 sure looks good and is getting good reviews. Will I do it again, I don’t know???
Kendall, Thats realtive to the type of shooting you anticpate doing though.
For example at one end of the sprectrum.
Sports/Action/alot of wildlife shooting.You will end up frustrated if your system isnt AFing fast enough.
Take the Blue Jay for example. Theres no way you can get that shot or similiar w/o the fastest focusing body/lenses.
Your kid scores the winning goal in overtime?
Would feel terrible missing that because the body/lens couldnt af fast enough in low light.If sports/action arent important than its somewhat immaterial. If they are than AF is critical.
Kendall, Thats realtive to the type of shooting you anticpate doing though.
For example at one end of the sprectrum.
Sports/Action/alot of wildlife shooting.You will end up frustrated if your system isnt AFing fast enough.
Take the Blue Jay for example. Theres no way you can get that shot or similiar w/o the fastest focusing body/lenses.
Your kid scores the winning goal in overtime?
Would feel terrible missing that because the body/lens couldnt af fast enough in low light.If sports/action arent important than its somewhat immaterial. If they are than AF is critical.
All good points – and why I have Canon.
TO Pentax fans…
http://www.pbase.com/mark_dominic/profileUnfortunately, I am not… I only have a tiny W-30 from Pentax… enjoy it though
John,
Those are some incredible photos! Seriously…nice work. That Bluejay shot should win you some kind of contest or something. You should contact Audubon. Wow.
I think part of what is happening is that guys like Ryan, myself and sounds like Rusty are VERY green at this photography thing. I know I dont have a clue what awaits me in 5 years with the Pentax. I might find out its limitations in 2 weeks and be very frustrated. Which is why some of you more experienced photographers are giving advice based on what you have seen/done/experienced.
My point to Ryan before and one I made here is that Pentax is making up huge chunks of ground (from what I read and hear) on the industry leaders and in the next few years will be offering most of what the others have on the market. So, as I have been told time and time again…its not neccesarily the body but quality glass. I think the K10D will perform very well, especially when teamed with a quality lens. No doubt one of the drawbacks to Pentax is its autofocusing. I find it MUCH slower than Canon’s, and I hope Pentax addresses this in future models…in 5 years when my kids are in sports I hope to get similar shots to what you took.
Also…Pentax does offer AF lens at 250mm+.
Well truth be told I dont enough of Pentax or Sony to fairly comment on, hence why i wont recommedn or offer comments on them. They could pay off I don know 🙂
I think the biggest mistake anyone can make is suffering buyers remorse. All the bodies can take good pictures. So your not “out” or stuck with a lemon..You might just have something you question. I know I did. Like I said Im on my 4th body 🙂
glass before body.
Yep. Absolutly. While ive changed bodies because I outgrew them faster than I was expecting and or opporunity to get a good deal popped up Ive yet to change any of my lenses. My glass is my investment and will last me years and years if I take care of it…..My bodies wont, nor have they.I think what anyone should do no matter their budget is compare apples to apples.
Goto a store with a couple cards and take shots with similiar setups with a 30D, a Nikon D70 and a Pentax XXx or whatevers closest.*me* because I shoot so much in low light at high isos would look hard at the comparative noise at ISO 800 and might even print 8x11s to better determine. I know from having owned a 30D for a year that ISO 800 was ok, if not good and shot there alot. A couple friends with D200s feel its unuseable there. But that me…noise to me is important to others it may not be. After that things like shutter lag, fps, iq come into the equation.
/edit
Thanks for he comments. I am trying to determine what todo with the Blue Jay shot. For now its a enlargement on my wall 🙂Wow John. Really amazing photos. And I don’t doubt that your gear had a ton to do with it. That doesn’t diminish from your talent though.
My comments about image quality being essentially equal among brands still rings true to me when you consider Rusty’s original post:
The W30 is worthless in a low light at distance shooting, not enough flash, but great for the active outdoors type. I have played with the Pentax K100D and I think I like it, mainly because of the price. I want to keep it simple, but have the ability to build off this camera if I need to at a later date. I am not looking to go pro, just looking for a more broad spectrum if and when I need it. Keep in mind price, please.
I think that at the price point we’re talking, for the purpose stated, and his vision for the future, Rusty would have a few choices in DSLRs, all with similar pros and cons. If we’re talking a K100D as the camera of choice upon first blush, then I don’t think a Canon 1 series with L-glass or a Nikon D3 is a viable option.
The way I see it the choices break down to something like this:
Canon XT, XTi, maybe a used 30D
Nikon D40, D40x
Pentax K100D, K100D Super, K10D
Oly 415? (not sure on the model here…)
Sony A?? (ditto with Sony)I’d argue that all have similar IQ for Rusty’s needs with each model exhibiting strengths in one area and weaknesses in others. All would allow reasonable upgrades short of the Pro level bodies, but I don’t think that’s really in Rusty’s future. (If it is, Rusty, go Canon or Nikon) All have good choices in quality lenses, with Canon, Nikon, and Pentax offering a great selection.
I honestly don’t think that for a consumer level DSLR one needs to sweat things out too much. If you’re looking at this as a hobby, you’ll do well with whatever you choose. If you foresee this getting serious, or if you have a lot more money to throw at your equipment, choices can become greatly more complicated and/or confusing.
Again John, great photos. Shows what a talented photographer with great gear can do. I’m hugely impressed and aspire to your level of skill one day. But I stand by the statement that Rusty can relax in his decision for his entry level kit. No need to get an ulcer over what should be a fun hobby.
Ryan
I don’t disagree there or with the sentiment and I understand that in most of your post.
What I was mainly referring to was crediting a fish to a rod. You can make good arguements that a fish caught on a $1,000 custom boo would still be the same fish caught on a $50.00 special and that you cant really credit particular catches/success to your gear.
That doesnt hold true for photography.
There are large differences in what money buys starting with bodies and into glass. Thats not to say you cant do well with entry level, you can but the reality is that the more $ you put into your gear, the better the output *and* types of photos you can get. The blue jay was just to illustrate it. Using the same 400mm f5.6 L on a 30D and 40D I probably deleted hundreds and hundreds of attempts over 2 years. They just dont AF fast enough or accurately enough, especially at that distance. The 1DmkiiN with its two chips can and does.While you still need to put the center point on target which is no small feat given the target size, speed and distance (about 20 feet). Its like hitting a tennis ball with a scoped hunting rifle. I still owe the shot to the hardware theres just no getting around that.
The ISO shots again were just for illustrative purposes and I think its more of a subjective arguement.
I shoot a ton at ISO 800 and almost aways at 1,000 and higher when doing my girls Gymnastic and Volleybal. “Defining” whats useable is subjective. Whats unacceptable to me may be acceptable to others. Again I know some people who hate shooting over 400 but is it really all that??Different makes/models are better at high ISOs.
My first year with a XT I couldnt shoot my girls sports. The lighting is brutal and in order to get high enough SS to freeze them that meant iso 1,000 or more. The second year I could with the 30D, they arent good at ISO 1,000+ but they are usueable with alight touch of noise reduction. I strongly considered a 5D but know its AF and fps would hinder my wildlife shooting. So Ive known for a long time Id be a 1D owner at some point. The point is, the differences at reducing noise at those isos is again due purely to he hardware. It has absolutely nothing to do with whos driving the camera.No one in the camera stores filled me in on that stuff when I was first shopping 🙂
We’re just scracthinghe surface really. Whether its 30Ds, D70s or D40s, XTs and their equivelants.I think Rusty should take everything hes reading and then go a store with 3 cards and shoot the systems being talked about.
No-ones mentioned flash systems yet 😉
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