Biology Question About White Bass and Shoal Bass

[Zach Matthews]

Hey you biology type guys –

Here in Georgia I have had a hell of a time finding the kind of white bass runs I always expected in Arkansas, where they are pretty common.

[keith b]

Zach,
I am no Biologist, but I do have some in the building. 😀

I have fished for shoal bass over the last couple of years and I have never heard of any of the guys I have spoken with about Shoalies saying they compete for the same area as a white bass.
I have heard of the white bass runs in the spring, and they have not been in the same water as shoalies.

[T. Wiles]

Not sure about the white bass runs in the GA, but here in TN on the middle Holston, many of the locals tell stories lately of how dramatic the decline has been in the spring runs of these fish…especially in the past 10 years.

Typical story tells of when thousands of fish would flood the rivers during the late March/April runs of “Stripe” and how the anglers would line the banks fishing for them.
Obviously overharvesting is the immediate concern, but the decline has also affected the Hybrids and Stripers that are stocked annually.

My suspicion runs HIGH that the gill parasite that has decimated the big stripers in these waters may have taken it’s toll on the white bass runs.

[Zach Matthews]

Thanks Travis – that’s also interesting.

I know as far as species decline goes in the Southeastern reservoirs, there are many factors in play.

[Bob Riggins]

I don’t have a clue as to your question, but I happened to catch a part of Shaw Grigsby’s show on Shoal Bass on the Flint River.  It looked like a great place to fly fish for them.  Since that is within driving distance of me (albiet a long drive), I was interested in some of the specifics on fishing for them.  When to target, rod types and flies.  What part of the Flint are they normally found on?

[Zach Matthews]

Hey Bob-

I’ve fished for shoal bass in the Flint with Kent Edmonds – he’s the guy you want to talk to.

[regan c. kenyon jr.]

This is a handy website when wondering something about a fish species:

[T. Wiles]

Thanks Travis – that’s also interesting.

 What’s the gill parasite you’re referring to called, Travis, if you know?

Zach

Not sure what it’s called, but every one of the BIG striper anglers in the area that I’ve spoken with has described having some encounter with it.

[Zach Matthews]

Travis –

You have to wonder if there’s any kind of biological herbicide or fungicide they could distribute to anglers to spritz on their catch.

[Mike Anderson]

I can remember the good ole days when you could catch them for about two or three weeks during the spring runs. I can also remember when they would show up on the lakes in huge schools busting shad. I’m talking about acres of surface busting fish! All you had to do is cast something sliver with a hook and it was on! Those days are pretty much gone aroud here. They still make the spawn runs here but the numbers have drastically been reduced.
It started on our two rivers about the time a lot of immigrants started showing up. Everyday all day they were there with coke cans, gil nets, rod and reels, etc, catching and keeping EVERYTHING they caught. Pretty soon it wasn’t worth messing with. These same people have started poaching the lake now for the Hybrids. Last month I watched a family unload a bag of fish from a boat into a car with no trailer then head back out to catch more. Needless to say I called the warden and was later informed that they caught and arrested the family with waaay over the legal limit and also undersized fish. I’m positive they got a small fine and a slap on the wrist.

Finding a good white bass place near a major population is going to be a tough one. If you do, you better keep it quiet! Also learn how to identify the females and let most of them go.

[T. Wiles]

http://www.tnfish.org/FishDiseasesParasites_TWRA/AchtheresGillMaggotsNegus_TWRA.htm

Here ya go—-“Gill maggots”

TWRA calls it a beneficial symbiont…but the striper guys are swearing up and down that it’s destroying the larger fish.
I’ll have to side with the anglers who are on the water more than 3/4 of the year. :-/

Edited the post to respond to you Mike.  Both anglers and the biologist may be right.  I do believe that such a hitch hiker makes the host susceptible to opportunistic infections, and during low O2, high temp years…which we experienced during these record droughts….the big fish just aren’t making it.
I sure hope this trend turns around, and this Striper Funk runs it’s course.

Travis

[Mike Anderson]

Travis everything I’ve been told about Gill maggots is that they don’t pose a threat to the host. I’ve always been skeptical about that. Have you heard differently

http://www.tnfish.org/FishDiseasesParasites_TWRA/AchtheresGillMaggotsNegus_TWRA.htm?

[Gary Sundin]

I am a biologist and work with fish, though I am no expert on white bass.  I often refer to the following for native range questions:

“Diversity, Distribution, and Conservation Status of the Native Freshwater Fishes of the Southern United States”
Author: Melvin Warren et al.
Published in: Fisheries, Oct, 2000.

Unfortunately, this article is not freely available online.  But according to it: white bass are not native to any Atlantic drainage, nor to the Coosa River drainage nor the Apalachicola/Chattahoochee/Flint drainage (ACF), and are therefore introduced wherever they occur in GA.

Regarding competition from black bass: competition among species is easy to opine about, but how it works and how it effects populations can only be understood through research.  Species may prey directly upon each other, compete for common prey items, displace each other from favored habitat, etc.  One thing I feel reasonably comfortable guessing at is this: adult GA white bass populations are not significantly limited by interactions with black bass in rivers during their spring runs.  Spawning runs are short, desperate, mass events.  Competition in the impoundments where white bass make their main living is another matter.  GA impoundments have issues with introduced species and/or range expansions with species like spotted bass, blueback herring, and flathead catfish.  Also, striped bass are intensively stocked and managed in many impoundments.  Anecdotally, the runs coming out of Lanier have decreased with the increased stocking of striped bass in that lake.

I only have experience with a couple runs here in the GA piedmont.  I haven’t seen much change in the 10 years I’ve fished them, though runs seem to be a bit cyclical.  If there are fewer runs, or if they are shorter or less dense than runs in native Gulf drainages, then there are any number of possible explanations for that, including competition, disease, overfishing, poor habitat, etc.  My experience has been that even at the peak of the run, fish must be targeted in specific habitats.  In my mud-banked flow this means dead eddies within a few feet of the bank.  Especially target big slack eddies on the outside of river bends.  Timing is important.  Fishing 4-8 times during the run, I’ll hit “great” fishing only a couple times, but find some fish every trip during the month lf April.  I’m simply trying to convey that the white bass runs in GA are “good” by my standards, but that there is a learning curve.  My advice would be to target flows other than those out of Lanier.  Within your general vicinity Lake Oconee and Lake Allatoona are both well-respected for their white bass populations.  (Although Oconee is managing more and more for stripers, apparently, so we’ll see how that effects things.)  In rocky flows, look especially for the first few major shoals upstream from the lake.  Use tandem rigs with different colors or sizes.

[Zach Matthews]

Extremely helpful – thank you Gary.

Zach

[Mike Anderson]

Also lake Sinclair at the steam plant used to be a great White Bass fishery during winter.

[robert lee]

Zach – here is some information regarding the White Bass runs in our area.  I’ve only had the experience of chasing them through the Coosa Water Shed on the Etowah River.  The population can be dense at times.  Early spring ( late March early April) or about the time the dogwoods bloom is when they start moving from the  reservoirs up the rivers and creeks that feed them in order to spawn.

The info is in parts, pulled from another site of guys that do nothing but chase warm water species

Lake Allatoona is not well-known as a tremendous white bass fishery, but a pretty good run exists up the Etowah River arm. Whites can be found upstream past Dawsonville, but most fishermen concentrate their efforts between the lake and Canton. The Little River is another feeder stream that may be worth a look.

Lake Weiss– Located on the Georgia-Alabama line, Lake Weiss might boast the most dense population of white bass in the state. The vast majority of the whites will journey up the Coosa River arm, but a few venture up Big Cedar Creek, just off the lake. One of the state’s best-known white bass holes is the area below Mayo’s Lock and Dam near Rome (there is a boat ramp and bank fishing available from atop the lock). Expect a crowd here during the run. The whites stack up here by the hundreds of thousands every year, and many will keep heading upstream after a short stay. These fish will either make a right or left when they reach the Rome city limits and head up the Oostanaula or Etowah Rivers. Action on both of these rivers can be fast, as there are some great creek mouths in each. Whites heading up the Etowah can make it no farther than the low-head dam near Cartersville. Oostanaula whites can head north up the Conasauga or east up the Coosawattee all the way to the tailrace of the reregulation dam behind Carter’s Lake. The fish in these rivers are probably not as numerous as they are farther downstream in the Coosa, Etowah, and Oostanaula rivers. The reregulation reservoir itself contains whites, which might head up Talking Rock Creek a short distance.

Lake Lanier– Lake Lanier boasts a massive population of whites. These fish will head up the Chattahoochee arm north of Belton Brige Rd., and the best fishing is normally found from here downstream to Lula Bridge. Many of Lanier’s whites will head up the Chestatee River arm and normally do not go much farther than the GA 400 bridge. Both the Chattahoochee and Chestatee runs receive a good bit of attention from anglers on spring weekends.

West Point– The white bass run out of West Point is also legendary. Anywhere from State Highway 219 all the way up to the shoals near Franklin can produce 100-fish days if you catch it right. West Point also has some smaller tributaries that may be worth a look.

[Bill Butts]

No professional letters behind my name, but perhaps the last name is enough to get attention, or sysmpathy. Ha.

Anyway, Zach, you and I discussed the original native range of White Bass in the podcast in March 2007.

[tradd d]

Great Thread~

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