5d m2?
- This topic has 46 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Sep 2, 2009 at 7:33 am by
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Kurt, that is exactly why i usually am not the type to jump on every new release of a camera… there has to be some pretty substantial improvements for me to take a look at upgrading a body, thats why i have been shooting the 30d for so long.
I’ll add a very quick comment here, having shot on both platforms.
First, Canon and Nikon are the world leaders and they both make excellent gear. Of all the factors that influence a great photograph, the majority involve the photographer and not the body.
With that said, think of your image as a destination. Getting there with a Canon (to me) is like taking surface streets in a car, and Nikon is more like taking the freeway. Nikon firmware and ergonomics just get out of your way and get you to the results.
One great example is ISO. On Canon, I would always be watching for the point when my exposure began dropping off to bump up the ISO. Using Nikon, I simply tell the camera where I want my maximum ISO, and it will automatically bump it up as needed. You set this once, when you get the camera, and then forget about it.
🙂 Brett please, please don’t take this wrong. I just found it kind of humorous and it sort of jumped out at me.
First, Canon and Nikon are the world leaders and they both make excellent gear. Of all the factors that influence a great photograph, the majority involve the photographer and not the body.
With that said, think of your image as a destination. Getting there with a Canon (to me) is like taking surface streets in a car, and Nikon is more like taking the freeway. Nikon firmware and ergonomics just get out of your way and get you to the results.
One great example is ISO. On Canon, I would always be watching for the point when my exposure began dropping off to bump up the ISO. Using Nikon, I simply tell the camera where I want my maximum ISO, and it will automatically bump it up as needed. You set this once, when you get the camera, and then forget about it.
Sort of a conflict there in so much as the camera is dertiming a critica setting for you…atleast up t a maximum 🙂
That said I’ve handled a couple Nikons, Hands down their entry/prosumer bodies felt better in my hands relative to the Canon counterparts. Don’t think I can say that with their Pro. Dunno really
A friend of mine (who reads this board) recently said to me of the Nikon d300/Canon 50D that the 50D seemed more intuitive and he prefered the controls..Again I dont know.
I will say that my 1D is both fairly easy and fairly complex. Some things I can do with my eyes closed as fast as I can think, others I have to go into the menus and with 21 custom functions menus and 3 more separate, it can be a bit if its a setting I dont change often.
For example I constantly change from sinle point af to what we Canones refer to as the ring of fire (either 11 or 17 points) around the active when contrast is low. Its custom function menu screen 17. I can do it in about 1 to 2 seconds. Manually setting my WB is pretty easy as well.
Shooting 1D’s do take some time, especially when you are coming from bodies with dials for tv,av,p etc but frankly I can change the most commonly used settings as fast as anyone who uses dials. But mostly, like anything once you use it enough, it becomes second nature regardless of the system.
Never understood the whole Nikon is easier to use debates myself but definately undertsand the ergonomics in the entry/pro sumer lines.
John: You don’t have to worry much about me taking things wrong, I enjoy the opinions of people who know their stuff and always try to learn something from good dialog.
For example I constantly change from sinle point af to what we Canones refer to as the ring of fire (either 11 or 17 points) around the active when contrast is low. Its custom function menu screen 17. I can do it in about 1 to 2 seconds. Manually setting my WB is pretty easy as well.
This is actually a good example of what I meant.
Its custom function menu screen 17. I can do it in about 1 to 2 seconds. Manually setting my WB is pretty easy as well.
“Custom Function Menu Screen 17” got me laughing. Sorry John ;D
Where you talking about “Pre-Set” white balance?As for Canon WB settings this about sums it up:
http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-adjust-white-balance-on-the-Canon-EOS-camer-6986 😮Eric, that is exciting. I bet you are chompin’ at the bit to get the new body and start shooting! Let us know.
Kurt has a great point. Any more than 50,000 clicks and I would pass, refurbished or not. You can have them send a jpg shot from said camera via e-mail and plug it into an application like opanda to find out the number of shots fired.
As for me, I’ll give six prime reasons why I shoot Nikon. They’re manual focus, never go out of style and always fit…
Jay if you’d taken the time to see the custom on the 1D, as I said its pretty easy.The guy in the vid took some time but its an instructional vid Once your used to it you ca do it in a few, just as you said the nikon takes a few. Its fast and fairly easy. Agee the 5D looks like a chore 🙂
So are many others. Once your used to the menus they are pretty easy. chaning from ring af to ring is cake.It might take me 2 seconds. How often do I need to change faster than that, in 2 years I can honesty say its nver cost me a shot
Changing to 1 of the 3 persoanal functions (sets of custom fuctions is cake). If you switch often say some low light sports (various custom functions) to wedding (differnent custom functions) ……
Theres fewer buttons and dials. Makes some things easier and some things harder. So Jay what to do you when you want to change someting your dont do often in the dead of night?
I can do it on the fly pretty much.Back to ISO.
If I want ISO 200 I want ISO 200, not 250 or 320. if I decide the shot realy needs 250 or 320 I decide (not the camera) and my buttonless, dial less 1D takes me about 1/8th of a seocnd to do it without taking my eye of the viewfinder. I can increase increase ISO 1/3 and open teh lens 1/3 and drop ss 1/3 all on the fly wihout taking my off the shot in less than .25 second. Atleast I know ISO is increased 1/3 at the critical moment and the camera doesnt bump it 1 stop because you say upto 400 is ok…ISO affects more than just noise.At the end of the day has your D700 got anything like this
Thats full frame at bout 15 feet. Tthe AF speed/accuracy needed for that because its so close, is well….off the charts and I personally have only seen shots like come from Canon 1DMKII, MKIIns and MKIIIs.
Not quite as difficult but almost
When I read people rave about one system and in the same breath knock others I just dont get it, especially when I know differently 🙂
Bottom line
Both systems are top notch, each has some strengths and weakness compared to the other but c’mon.The truth is any one of us could be given a free body but have to choose blind folded………and we couldnt pick wrong
John, I have had my 700 for just a few. However, with that said I feel confident that I do not have any issues with quality.
Has my D700 captured anything like that….. no, but then again I have not dedicated any time to birding with the new hardware. I did however spend some time shooting birds with my Canon 40D and managed to get some decent shots. I had to really work for them. Was it 15ft in front of me…no. But at the end of the day I didn’t think this thread was going to be a swingin dick contest either 😉
The above shot was taken on a Canon 40D with a 100-400L
(above) my 700 does just fine at the end of the day.I have seen very impressive bird shots on the 700 and even 300 with a Nikkor 500mm f/2.8 prime. Try holding that hand cannon with a 1.7extender (800mm) on a Baldy that charges. (http://www.flytowater.com threshers blog for example. Some of the most impressive bird/eagle shots I have ever seen.)
John I was never knocking you for what you sport. I was mearily stating the reasons why I think the MKII is inferior to the 700 and why I did not go with the MKII. If you took it personal I apologize it was not intended to be any kind of personal attack. You ought to know that 😉 /shrug
Ok… so getting back to what we were originally talking about here, thanks for the tips on checking shutter count.
Thanks jay, it looks like it is going to arrive on saturday, which is a bummer because i will be heading north for the cottage friday afternoon. Maybe i will have to call in sick a day next week!
And John, with all due respect to your fantastic images, I don’t think its fair to compare a $2500 (nikon) camera with one that costs 3 or 4 times as much.
Might say your right Eric, it is sort of apples to oranges but you need to consider the context. A comment was made that questioned the AF of Canons 1D and in the same breath raved about the D700s.
On price comparison the D700 is as comparable to a 1DMKIII, as to the 5DMKii is to the D700 and vice versa. So if anything I might argue that it’s as relative or just as unfair.
5DMKII: $2,300
D700 : $3200 (+40%)
IDMKII: 5,200 (+38%)The D700 is 40% more expensives than the 5D, yet 38% less expensive than the 1D to which it was compared.
John I was never knocking you for what you sport. I was mearily stating the reasons why I think the MKII is inferior to the 700 and why I did not go with the MKII.
And that reason was the AF.
Jay no worries I didn’t take it personal but Im goin to call a spade a spade. I hope you haven’t taken anythin personal either, I still love ya. The net doesnt allow for inflection, tone etc….All things that truly differentiate commentary from discussion to challenges etc.
That said, I should have been more specific.
Tracking large birds in flight like eagles, Harriers, particularily larger birds that arent speed demons isn’t exactly taxing a bodies AF system. I’ve got all kinds of those shots with a rebel XT
Nor is a Mallard lifting off a test of bodies AF system, Nor is a fish sitting stationary in the water.
************If you want to impress me ( said with a friendly smile on my face) show me a speed demon that taxes the bodies AF to the Max.
Like a Steelhead exploding out of the water where you have about 1 half a second to acquire it and the camera to nail it. Not track a slow flier in flight.A bluy Jay is about 1/3 the size of a Mallard and moves a hell of alot faster. Even though its smaller, if you look at the frames it fills more of the frame…Meaning its fricking close where as the Mallard isn’t “relatively”. Im sure you know what I mean..Nailing a bird…any bird…thats 75 feet away and flying laterally is a hell of alot easier, then nailing that same bird, at the same rate of motion and on the same plane from 20f eet. The larger/slower, smaller/faster it is the harder it is on the Bodies AF system.
The ultimate test of any bodies AF system is getting keepers of fast moving targets that are flying right at you. Why? Because aside from needing to be fast and accurate for initial acquisition, the “tracking’ element is a misnomer…The systems are actually “predictive”.
range to subject
Subject rate of motion
Size of subject
Subject headingWhats easier/harder.
Shooting a 747 out of the sky at moderate range or and f16 thats sreaming by at extreme close range? Getting images of a F150 thats cruising by at 75 feet vs a Ducati sreaming by at 20 feet?AF systems (aside from initial aquisition speed and accuracy), are “computed”, not unlike any targetting system. Its a hell of alot easier to comput that when its a slower moving target, thats going latterally. First thing any new camera owner should do who might want to test their bodies AF is to rip off an extended burst of a dog running at them not overly taxing, but a legit test. How many are keepers?
I’m not going to go reread this whole thread to make sure, but i think where you are mixed up john, is that Jay’s quote above was in reference to the 5d”MkII”, not the 1d”MkII”. As far as i know, nobody in this thread is throwing mud on the AF system of the 1D series… and i just saw the d700 for 2300 on amazon, and 2700 on adorama – 2300 is a heck of a deal!
Regardless, and as you said, both are great systems, and the intent of the original question to Jay was to get some input from a real world user on some of the subtle differences between them that can make a difference depending on your intended use for the camera.
/edit.
No worries Eric.
Re getting shot. (the duck or you)
I hit area’s upto to the weekend before the season opens and then for a short period after it closes, no matter the species, be it waterfowl, Deer or Turkey.In season I *only* goto Conservation Areas and I tend to favor Conservation Areas that get alot of foot traffic.
If you want to impress me ( said with a friendly smile on my face) show me a speed demon that taxes the bodies AF to the Max.
Like a Steelhead exploding out of the water where you have about 1 half a second to acquire it and the camera to nail it. Not track a slow flier in flight.Steelhead and blue jays won’t tax an AF system to the max.
There’s a new firmwear update that has solved the issues on the Canon 1D and !DS cameras, though calibration still needs to be exact to get consistent results with fast lenses.
I’ve used both the 1DSIII and D3x for fishing photos and both, being such high rez, are very demanding on lenses and AF and VERY unforgiving of any operator error, most of the new sub pro models are also now high enough rez to have the same problems.
About Nikon Vs. Canon, I would say the perfect set-up IMHO would be the Canon DsIII body, with the Nikon TTL flash system and the following lenses –
Nikon 14-24
Nikon 24-70 G
Canon 70-200 F4L IS
Canon 24 1.4 L
Canon 50 1.2 L
Canon 85 1.2 L
Nikon 105 VR Macro
Any of the Canon or Nikon big prime lenses.I would consider the chip out of the D3x in the Canon body if I didn’t shoot any studio people stuff as well.. 😉
Now, back to reality –
www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Brett have those been cropped?
The DoF on the swallow is fairly deep which if your using a long lens and its filling that much of he frame even at f8 gettin almost the entire bird within the DoF is not easy. That coupled ith the noise in the sky leads my think they have been. If Im wrong my apologies.Heres a chickadee a little smaller than a swallow(full frame/uncropped) at F9 and you can see just howe little DoF there is
Again, range to subject. The further/closer the easier/harder it is. I can shoot birds in flight tha are “relatively” far away and then crop them so they fill more of te frame and look good all day long.
And even at these reduced res’s the swallow looks a hair soft. That can be sharpening though but it does look just a hair soft.
The avocet (no offense) even at reduced res looks a bit soft.
I dont have an avocet but heres another small speed demon that would be close in size to an avocet. The difference if you will is night and day
Getting a steelhead rocketing out of the water doesnt tax a bodies af speed? Please…if it were easy you’d see hundreds of those kinds of shots.
I have no interest in starting a war guys, but i your going to make some claims back it up. I know atleast a dozen people who do use the best of best (inlcuding Nikon and Canon) and if its AF that rocks your boat. They prefer Canon.
Is the Nikon D3, D3x on par?
I cant see why not.The D700?
Im not saying its not good, Ive yet to see images from them that make me go…holy crap you dontsee that very ofen (with regards to af)/edit add
Look theres two thins going on here.One is the Nikon/Canon debate..I personally don’t undertsand them. Maybe Doug summed it up best when he said for a long time Nikon users were……. And now that Nikon has addressed some long overdue “defiencies” have woodies…..Great for Nikon devotees but put things in pespective.
Two.
Please understand I’m not knocking/attacking anyones images, but.
When you get down to brass tacks your talking about and risking *other* peoples hard earned money. I understand we all think our bodies/lenses are the cats meow. Im guilty of it (predisposed biasm)myself at times….thats one reason why I actually rarely try to sway on their decisions.I dont want to make a claim orlead someone to beleive that XXX is hte cats meow. If they go out and drop 3 grand or 5 grand expecting the D700 to be on par with a D3 or a Canon 1DmkIII in part because of soem things Ive said/claimed/thought to be true and then discover for themselves that maybe it isnt???? Its not a subject to screw around with, to me its extremely serious and I dont want even the slightest misrepresentation, intentional or not (im not saying its intentional)
i dont want that on my shoulders
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