The Problem with Facebook
- This topic has 16 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Feb 21, 2014 at 9:49 am by
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Hey guys –
This is something that’s been bothering me for a while. I know for a fact that Facebook has affected the traffic of basically every fly fishing internet site. Robust forums that used to dominate our conversation–Flyfish.com, the Virtual Fly Shop, etc., are all but gone, and many of the stronger remaining forums (FAOL and The Drake, for example) have largely stagnated with the same set of people over the last few years.
At first I wasn’t overly concerned about this, because I figured, hey, the conversation’s just moving around, and ultimately all the content under discussion has to come from somewhere. Although this forum is a labor of love for me, I have always primarily viewed The Itinerant Angler as a content service.
For those of you who have never taken a moment to browse this site, did you know there are over 1700 photos in the photo archive? Nearly 50 magazine-grade (or actual magazine) articles? Video series? Over a hundred half-hour podcasts? I have thousands and thousands of hours of labor represented on these pages, and over time that adds up to a lot.
Which gets me back to Facebook. A while back I started a Facebook “page.” It didn’t take me long to realize that while the Facebook Page for The Itinerant Angler might have a lot of ‘likes,’ in actual fact the number of people viewing the content I posted was never close to the number of likes the page had. And it turns out this is on purpose.
Check out this very informative video if you have time:
What it boils down to is this: Facebook regulates how many people see content you post to your feed. That goes for both your own personal feed and for Pages like The Itinerant Angler’s. If you want more people to see your content, you have to literally pay them to “Boost Post.” It’s sort of the antithesis of the internet itself; instead of leaving content out there for everyone to look at, you have to actually pay them to push more of it through the pay wall, almost like HBO has to pay a local cable provider just to be an available service.
I’m not HBO. I can’t afford to pay $35 or $50 just to bring an article I’ve posted to y’all’s attention. And I think that practically no one realizes this is happening with Facebook. We’ve all had the experience of mentioning something we posted to Facebook and having a friend–who we are Facebook friends with–look at you like, huh, I didn’t see that? And it turns out Facebook is doing this on purpose.
So anyway, going forward, I am going to make more of an effort to post about, discuss, and update content-side stuff both here on the board and also on Twitter, which does not regulate posts. If you haven’t already followed this site on Twitter, the handle is @itinerantangler. I use that Twitter account basically only for this site, so you won’t get bothered with a bunch of stuff about Arkansas football or anything (ok, *some* Arkansas football content is likely).
I guess the point of this post is to make y’all aware of the choking effect that Facebook is having both on this site and elsewhere on other fly fishing sites on the internet. By 2008 we had built up a really strong online culture for our sport, but as more and more of that content gets passed through Facebook’s “regulator”, fewer and fewer of us are actually seeing it. And that’s killing the discussion.
You can help–if you want to–by making an effort to post stuff HERE rather than merely on Facebook. If you have a question about fly fishing, this is a great place to bring it. If you have an observation to make about the world, WE ARE INTERESTED. If you have baby pics to share with your aunts and uncles… Facebook is definitely your target. 🙂
Thanks,
ZachWell stated Zach. Could not agree more, and thanks for all of the great content.
Now for irony: I was directed to this story from my Facebook feed.
Best,
Dave
Yeah I saw this on facebook before I came here.
I used to get on facebook just to keep up with what my kids are doing, make sure other kids were being respectful, etc. But the kids are running from facebook as fast as they can. That says something about the service.
(ok, *some* Arkansas football content is likely)
Go Mizzou!
Just FYI, I logged in with Facebook. 🙂
I agree that the discussion is fading on the boards. Mine has taken a hit as well. The problem isn’t just FB IMO. There are several other issues for the TN midstate area. We’ve had some major shifts in weather the last 5 years. The COE has destroyed one of the greatest Trout Fisheries in the south, and is working on another…. A large scale kayak rental operation has destroyed the Caney Fork (once mid Tn’s best Tailwater)for fishing in the summer. Floods and heat waves knocked the Hybrid populations down pretty bad in a few mid state lakes. Overcrowding in lakes make it impossible to fish in the summer due to wake boarding and skiing.
The Plastic navy (proud member) are now invading every nook and cranny once protected from the masses. There seems to be a new interest in all kinds of fishing and large crowds have caused smart fishermen to keep their mouths shut about a hot bite. Take the Musky craze that’s going on now. Once upon a time there is a river here in TN that you would NEVER see another boat on, and if you did they were perch fishing. Now that river and area are being named almost daily all across the www. The result is heavily pressured fish that are already a giant pain in the ass to get to bite, and a sucky place to spend hard earned money to “get away” and enjoy some fishing.
Maybe the economy is also partly to blame as people are staying closer to home now.Then,,, there is the cool factor. It’s no longer cool to ask what’s your favorite 5wt or any other question considered to be too rookie. The ridicule of people new to the sport has hurt the discussion more then anything IMO. Even if it is all in good fun.
Remember back when people were interested in protecting their personal data? Seems so long ago.
Fascinating topic and some really good info there, Zach. Thanks for posting it.
I read this in the New York Times last week and thought it kinda fits into this discussion. It’s worth a few mins to read it none the less.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/07/opinion/nocera-will-digital-networks-ruin-us.html?_r=1There seems to be a new interest in all kinds of fishing and large crowds have caused smart fishermen to keep their mouths shut about a hot bite.
I got to say that this is it for me. I was very active on North Georgia Trout Online until about 2003. At that point, kayak fishing was really starting to gain traction and we got Georgia River Fishing. It was sad to see so many rivers and creeks that I had kept under my hat be named. In 2003, I moved to Central TX. I love the Texas Hill country and its fishing, but those waters can’t stand up to much pressure. I’d watch local boards and cringe anytime people were specific about a location. And so it goes. I’ve avoided FB, so can’t comment on that, but I do enjoy looking at others’ photos on Instagram where I’m taken aback by the amount of info on fisheries being shared even there.
Another part of it may be the amount of content that’s already been generated and the ease to search through this. Before I ask a question on a board, I’m usually able to answer it by searching.
Jason
FWIW, I think all this internet stuff is headed off the rails.
The reason IMHO, is big business is fighting to own the entire format or ‘vehicle’ that delivers the content, but makes no contribution to, and adds no value to the content itself.
As an example, because everyone can make and publish instant content the net is awash with crap videos, crap photos and generally shitty writing – you get what you pay for huh ?
The good stuff is much harder to find then it used to be when everything was print, but unfortunately, don’t make much money for those with any talent.
The good content has to compete with the rubbish for the advertising pennies..The paid links and data mining has also made using the net a tedious mine field.
An example – I’m trying to see if there’s flight from Sydney to the regional town Gladstone so I type in ‘Sydney to Gladstone flights’ and only get page after page of paid link sights and booking sights, but the question is not answered.
Is the search function functioning anymore ?
Has Google taken a big dump in their own backyard ?Also, at the moment, I’m making enquires about boats have contacted two dealers and two manufacturers directly through their websites and have not got a single reply.
Are they so busy chasing business across Facebook, twitter, youtube, blogs, instagram, ext ext that they no longer have time for email ?
Maybe I should just do things the old fashioned way a go in person ?www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
So many businesses fail to respond to email enquiries, which is a reflection on the failure of HR to hire compentent people, not social media.
I am only on FB to peddle my fly tying business and for the most part resist posting photo’s of my breakfast, venting about politics and selfies of myself in the mirror.
As a ‘free’ marketing tool it has been useful, but I was of the belief that all my “friends” saw everything that I posted. If FB are filtering the exposure and there is no way of measuring it, well – it kind of says its a waste of time. Costs to ‘boost’ posts really don’t stand up against the cost to sponsor an internet forum for 12 months, where the target audience is very specific.
An interesting read, Zach – thanks for the heads up.
Best Regards,
Beechy
Zach:
I have been meaning to reply to this thread since the first day I saw it, but haven’t had a chance until now. You and I have had our sites for quite awhile now, pretty much starting them around the same time if I am remembering correctly. The OzarkChronicles.com went live in 2001 and I remember trading messages with you as you were firing this thing up. Back in the day, the forum was the largest part of my site. At one time, I had over 600 members with too many active members to count. We would plan meet-ups and weekend outings and what not, and it was a tight community of people that actually met each other in real time. I made a ton of lifelong friends that I still fish with today, but that was before all the interweb social media craziness.
As the technology changed, I struggled with my site to keep the forums current (from a technology standpoint) and always looked for a better way to skin a cat. I changed forum software several times in an effort to improve the interface, and each time I lost more and more members. Finally (a few years ago), as I searched for a way to tie facebook to the forum and lost a ton of members in the migration, I decided to remove the forum all together from the site. In this age of instant self-gratification it takes a real effort to run an effective forum (both from the administrator and the active members), and I just gave up; largely because it was a chore to compete with facebook and myspace at the time. Now my site is a collection of my photography and a general blog to share my thoughts on whatever I choose; i update it in spurts and I think of it as more of an online diary of sorts (last year, I read back to fishing reports I posted in 2001….what a total trip).
I do think you are spot on with your thoughts on the control of facebook over the content that is posted, but like technology has changed over the years; this will pass and a new “facebook” platform will appear (I am already seeing more and more people move to google+…..once you can get it figured out) for the very reason above (and a myriad of more). The one thing that won’t change; however, is society’s “now” mentality. The masses (me included) have tasted the milk that is instant fly fishing access on the interwebs; so why create a thread on a forum, when i can share it out on a social media site and have a “conversation” with people I have never met. Unfortunately, in the age of internet fly fishing sites both you and I our dinosaurs. For me, the reason I keep coming back to this site (and a few others) is for the “friends” that I have made over the years and the knowledge that is shared on this site (largely in the photography section for me). So keep on keeping on with this, it is worth it.
www.ozarkchronicles.com
I want add my two cents. I have been a member of Paddlefishing.com here in Tampa Florida for several years, finally started donating to the site last year ( which reminds me I need to again this year), donations are not required but it helps. This site also has several “Tournaments” a year some for biggest fish, some for most species. All are photo and release!
1. These tournaments get 40-50 people together for a day of fishing and a meal afterwards.
2. It also gives some “Bragging Rights”
3. Keeps people involved in the forum.This forum started a Facebook page a while back but nobody really uses it, the forum is where we do all the information transfer. Facebook is a cool way to keep up with your “peeps” but ….
I just recently joined this forum because I will be moving back to North Arkansas very soon, and would like to be able to transfer information with like minded folks! Plus I have an older Gheenoe that I want to “Trick Out” similar to Zacks. Hopefully I’ll be able to share some things, but know I can learn a lot from you guys!
Thanks from an Arkie in the Salt!
Nice to meet you Hillbilly. What part of Arkansas are you moving back to? I would assume with a handle like that it’s up north…
Zach
Actually pretty close to you, we have place on the White River in Cotter Arkansas. I hope to be there before the Spring White Bass runs, definitely before the Smallies get cranked up, and well, just looking forward to the best of the Fresh Water fishing. While I do love the Salt, and fishing for Teeth, mackerel and barracuda, there’s nothing that compares to a Smallmouth in a knee deep creek!
I’ll be the guy (insert other term here) standing in a Kayak, Fly Fishing.
Hoping to see you guys on the Water!
Good points – and big problem….
As a blogger of minor consequence I have seen FB pretty much eliminate any comments at my site. Not that I ever generate tons of views or comments. Comments, if any, always seem to come on the FB post about the blog post. Which limits the possible conversation. When I first added a FB page for my site to FB – there was a huge influx of activity – which promptly all but died. And as you say – I can’t pay to promote my blog posts.
As a tenkara angler I have seen FB virtually kill the tenkara forums. The discussion has moved to FB. Which is sad, because it has become so fragmented among various FB Tenkara Groups and the discussion threads are lost so quickly.
Why bother typing out a response when you can just hit a button. Laziness wins every time. What kills me is all the likes when people from outa town come to your home rivers and whore it out to the world. You like this now, really?
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