Scenics from S.E. Idaho rivers
- This topic has 20 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Aug 28, 2009 at 3:11 am by
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Brett,
I especially like your composition on #8 and #9. They really appeal to me. Beautiful country. Nice job.
If you don’t mind me asking, what camera settings were you using for these shots (Manual, Landscape, AV, Auto)? Are you shooting RAW, or are these straight JPEGS?
One suggestion you can do to really make your images pop and saturate the colors, is to invest in a circular polarizer and experiment with it. It will also make your skies a deeper blue and improve the capture/ contrast in the clouds.
Those are pretty good shots, but i would argue most of those shots would be improved 10x by simply coming back later or earlier in the day when the lighting was better.
Memorable Quote from Rocky V, from Mickey:
“. . . If you ever get hurt and you feel that you’re goin’ down this little angel is gonna whisper in your ear. It’s gonna say, ‘Get up you son of a bitch ’cause Mickey loves you’. Okay?”
Eye of the tiger man, eye of the tiger.
Brett- Yikes shooting landscapes from a boat may be about as tough as it gets:)))
I love the big waterfall vertical shots !!!!!!!! nicely composed
Thanks Eric but after seeing Will’s work I may just toss my rig in the trash :-*
I like the shots you’ve posted – as someone who’s never been to that river, I can get a fair idea what’ there from your pictures and that’s a great starting point.
Photography is like fly fishing, if you try to take it all in from the first time, you will get nowhere, it’s a life long journey..
www.dsaphoto.com
A picture is thousand words that takes less than a second while a thousand words is a picture that takes a month.
Brett . . . in follow up to our recent discussions I decided to post a markup of one image from your trip. The intention is not to doctor or change your photograph, rather to show you how powerful that D90 can be. I processed the low-resolution image from above and exaggerated the exposure/tonal-range/sharpness, etc in an attempt to highlight “just how much information” is hidden within a digital image. Remember, there is a lot that can be done in post-processing with advanced software, however the better you capture the image “in camera” the better your final outcome. That is why guys on the board are always discussing topics like lighting, manual exposure, tonal range, diffused highlights, sharpening, sensor size, full frame, cropped frame, etc. It is all jargon that translates to a better learning curve for capturing an image at the time of shutter release. It’s like discussing nymph fishing techniques; there are lots of ways to catch a fish on a nymph but it’s all the little details that get you hooked to a bigger fish or more fish and an overall better experience.
That is what I love about this board. There are lots of guys here that will help you learn and take your photography to the next level.
Your original image of the waterfall is a great shot! Wonderful composition and it really gives the feel of the big river rapids and mammoth presence of nature. You did a superb job in capturing the scene. However, the image is flat. In other words it lacks tonality. There are lots of reasons why this occurred – 1)auto mode, 2) matrix metering (the camera tried to get it all with even exposure and that has a side effect of damping down the histogram like a snapshot), 3)ISO was automated and off for this particular scene, 4)haze from the water (a circ polarizer helps cut that down), 5)lack of sharpening, 6)colors are desaturated (lack of vibrance and saturation, which can be compensated in the menus), etc. Basically, that is a great shot but it lacks “pop”.
Now, this is where post processing comes in to play. If you look at any image processing software (doesn’t have to be a fancy program, even the free programs like Picasso are wonderful), you will see that the first steps of processing are always – temp, tint, exposure, recovery (highlights), brightness, contrast, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and the tone curve. Basically, these are all designed to correct and enhance most of the deficiencies we mentioned above in any standard image. Applying these to an image is like changing tippet or fly size or adding split shot or mending a line when nymph fishing. They tweak and fine tune the image to give a better outcome.
Screen shot from Lightroom 2.0 (Adobe) showing the quick develop tools.
Screen shot showing the histogram of your original image. Notice that the main peak is left of center and the “data” is bunched up in the middle. That is the camera’s auto capture attempting to get a good exposure with the side effect of lack of range (i.e. lack of highlights on the right and blacks on the left).
Before going on, let me again clarify that I am not a landscape photographer. There are guys here that can comment on this style much much better than me. I am just trying to get your feet wet with post processing.
This is the same image after post processing. Although there are a lot of technical problems with this markup, you should notice that there is in fact much information “hidden” in your original capture. It just needs to be pulled out and processed. If you had shot RAW then there would be even more information available for processing. Now there is more tonality (shadow/highlight range) to the image and the image has more of a three demential feel and the mood has changed dramatically. It has more “pop” and warmth and complexity (heck, I want to get on a plane and go see this amazing place myself).
Finally, here is a screenshot of the histogram after processing. Notice the wider range compared to the original image.
In summary, your Nikon D90 is a wonderful camera (and that 70-200 f2.8 is superb, I want one!). There is a HUGE amount of digital data captured with every image. It takes months/years/lifetime to master the equipment, but it is all a game of knowing how to manually manipulate the gear to get an image envisioned in your mind’s eye. Have fun! Hey, it beats golf in my opinion, ha.
Brett – this is my relaxation, hahahaha.
Jay – I posted some thoughts on histogram management and tips I’ve picked up. I would love to hear what others have to say.
Quick Summary: The histogram is just a tool to measure pixel density in light of exposure. Good photographs can have terrible histograms and good histograms can result from bad photographs. It is like an annual financial summary of a mutual fund – it just reports the outcomes so that you can manipulate the details.
A histogram is a technical measure of a photograph. Let me be clear – it is specifically a pile up of the pixels in a picture based on their density. All modern digital camera sensors capture pixels on the sensor and these are translated to an image. A good example to start is the black and white image. Basically the colors include black, grey, and white. Same goes for color images but more data. So, if you shot an image with lots of black and only a marginal amount of grey and white, then the histogram would pile up those black pixels on the left (the black side). If you shot a high key b&w with lots of whites and few blacks and greys then the histogram would pile up on the right (the white side). And so it goes, lots of grey pixels means middle of the histogram. With color it is the same except that the RGB channels each have their own pixel density and thus separate histograms which merge onto each other.
However, it gets complicated when you introduce the concept of exposure to the histogram, and the two are not mutually exclusive. You need to avoid over exposure (i.e. blown whites or blinkies on the right) and underexposure (i.e. blown blacks on the left). Thus, the histogram acts as a numerical count of 1)each pixel density and 2)where the pixels are being placed. This is an important concept because the equation of pixel placement + pixel location translate to density and exposure which directly translate to interpretive data. In other words art! This gets at your question about the SHAPE of the histogram and that’s where it all starts. It’s like learning to read a river, once you know the landmarks you can better position yourself to catch a fish. Knowing “where” and “how” you want the histogram to look allows you to manipulate your camera to actually get that result. And that is sometimes a problem when shooting in automatic mode because the camera has a specific set of algorithms to give a generic histogram. While this is often desirable, it can be frustrating when the output is not what was intended.
Also, the histogram tells a story about the picture’s “definition” and “information”. Now here is where it gets complicated. Basically if all the pixels are in a pile in the middle of the histogram that is good, but not necessarily art. Think of it like a pile of stones and the histogram as a shovel; if the stones/pixels are all piled in a nice clump then it is easy to shovel them up. That is good. However, as the pile scatters the stones (or information) start to reach the far left and far right and you won’t be able to shovel them up. That is bad (blown = no data).
The histogram has NOTHING to do with color balancing! It is only a measure of the information (pixel density) and exposure. You can dial exposure compensation up and down and that will only move the histogram left or right respectively, but it will not change the shape of the curve and it will not change the color balance (i.e. white balance).
Then there is the concept of dynamic range and contrast. That is what I was discussing in my previous post. This is the range of dark, mid-tone, highlight that the eye and the sensor can see. In my previous example notice that Brett’s original image has a good histogram but it lacks dynamic range and contrast, it’s flat but well exposed. What I did in the markup retouch was to exaggerate all the pixel data (on purpose) to spread out the histogram with more dynamic range.
Finally, the vertical axis on the histogram is also important. It is a measure of saturation density. Overexposed images will have tall peaks (desaturation) and underexposed images will have short peaks (saturated). That is a gross oversimplification and honestly the vertical axis is a discussion for another time – tough stuff trying to manage that aspect with flash/ambient-light, etc.
Now here’s the funny part! I don’t use the histogram much anymore. I mainly check to look for blinkies or blown blacks/whites and to adjust exposure compensation. Then I rely on my mind’s eye to decide what I want to photograph and how I want it to look. A dark mysterious image will be piled on the left, a bright poppy image will be piled on the right, and my medical images are generally in the middle and slightly to the right. You get a feel for what you want and then rely less on the histogram.
Examples:
Dark image with lots of shadows. Artsy.
Histogram – piled to the left
Bright image with outrageous highlights and purposely blown background.
Histogram – piled to the right
Mid-tone image – artsy, but in a different way, very little shadow/highlight density.
Histogram – notice the separation of RGB histogram density.
Very well explained Neal! To expand a bit on Neals explanation: The Histogram is the driving force behind the scenic modes on the P@S cameras as well as the P mode on DSLR’s. It is the histograms average values, shot under certain conditions, which are incorporated into the algorithms for auto modes. There are some that rely heavily on the histogram but unless the shots are for high-end fashion shoots, it really serves no benefit; the human eye can do far better.
Another advantage of the histogram is that it can give you a quick reference to what is wrong and how to correct a shot, while still shooting. Neals explanation cover that tool very well. Also, using the histogram, one can clearly see how well the pro lenses justify their prices in how the MTF data is measured in the way that the RGB values stack up in the histogram: Much better balanced tonality in the values.
Just as a side and as added information only. The reason why the data and value of the data is so important in fashion photography is for several reasons, just a few are: Proper color and tonality of fabrics, they have to reproduce true to definition. The threads are important but more important is the type of stitching used, in the industry they can tell what type of material and the type of stitching used at distances; this determines the quality and prices. Next is going to be the depth of tonality that makes the garments pop out against the skin tone of the models and the fabrics had better pop with better-diffused density over the skin tone. Then there is the background and determination of rather to go high key or not, both of these can be measured on the histogram and are vital for high-end fashion campaigns.
I am sure that some are asking, why is all of this so important and why did I bother sharing this extra information? Well, it is because we all use it but just don’t realize it. Everyone that takes a picture has access to the exact same information that is used in high end photography, I hope that some find this helpful in the future as the only difference for a high end fashion photographer is knowledge and how they apply that knowledge. I will use Neals last post as an example for comparing his high key shot and how it would cross over into a high-end high key fashion shot.
In the example that Neal provided, the reel with the white background, that is what is called a high key shot. The goal is to blow out the background with more contrast on the subject. 2 approaches here as one can have wrap around light offer a soft glow and the other is defined edge. I know that Neal wont mind my using his photo, as an example for dissection but it is not for critique as much as it is to share the multitude of technical disciplines used.
First consider the fact that black and white are neutral colors and for reproduction purposes we very rarely use them, as in print they are both blown values. For reproduction purposes, white is 18% grey as it still appears white to the human eye but will lay down ink on paper. In the reel shot, the background goes beyond the 18% grey value and this is done to blow out any remaining data in the background. Look at the far right and you will see the high spikes and data stacked up against the wall. You will notice that is looks as thou some data went beyond the histogram and shoots through the ceiling, this is a high key indicator and would be a bad thing for other types of shots, but for high key we need the blown detail in the background, the lost data may contain unwanted artifacts.
On the intended subject in a shot, on a high key shoot, we need the 3 elements’ of Dimensional Contrast. If you look at the good data in front of the right wall (grey scale and some color that stacks up about mid way), this is the bright spot on the reel; this is called the specular density and now we can actually measure that data. Between the good peaks of the right side and middle is the data the makes up the area that we refer to as the Specular Edge transfer and Diffused/Specular Contrast Control, this is where the transfer of bright to softer is blended for a gradual shift in density. The peak in the middle is made up from the data that has a softer more true tonality of the accurate colors of the subject, which would be the area that is slightly darker to the brightest area. This is one of the most important pieces of data as it gives the viewer an accurate reproduction of what the true color of the subject is. We now have a very small peak at the far left of the histogram but first the area between the middle peak and far left peak also holds data: This area holds the data that we refer to as the Diffused/Shadow Transfer, Shadow Edge Transfer and then the peak would be Shadow Density. This is very important as specular has to have shadow and detail must have contrast. Think of contrast as the richness and even darkness of colors. If you look at the Shadow Density peak you will also see yellows and blues, we can identify this data by looking at the shot and see that this data also accounts for the color of the fly line, which means that Neal nailed it and got all of the data for the color of the fly line. The color of the fly is spread out in several areas, as the red seems to be just a bit over exposed and caused it to show up in the Specular data. You can also see just a bit of it in the valley of data that holds the Specular edge Transfer and Diffuses/Specular Contrast Control. If we bring this back to the middle just a tad, it helps the reds to pop a bit more as the reds are truly the most difficult colors to work with.
Now I am sure some want to know what this has to do with landscape shots and how can it help there? It has everything to do with it and it can help tremendously. As has been said, time of day and intensity of light are very important as we can see how it affects the histogram. Take a shot using the Sunny Rule of 16’s in mid day sun and you will see blown data on both sides of the histogram, this is because the bright’s are to bright and the darks are to dark, the ratio is far to great for the camera sensor to capture correctly. Solution? This is where the filters and, thank you digital, raw data files for post are wonderful saves. Other than that, there are lots of colors in the landscape scenes and taking a test shot, look at the data and determine where all of your colors are using the information that I provided above.
If you are shooting a subject against a natural background, look for the colors on your subject and try what ever you can to get the subjects data to measure slightly higher than that of the background, this is where the separation comes from and the pop as well as dimensional illusions are created.
Hope this helps some and hope I didn’t get to technical.
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