Madonna
- This topic has 27 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Mar 11, 2009 at 9:36 pm by
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Hi all,
I’ve become a big fan of Madonna streamers; I fish them almost exclusively when I’m using the sinking line, jerk-strip method.
Tim..great looking ties man.
Although I’ve never used this fly…I’ve created similar patterns unintentionally.
Great flies Tim!!!
Aaaaahhhh, the Gallup flies strike again.
I love the Madonna style but honestly I catch more bass with them than “trophy” trout. Last time I had one on for trout was when I lost my Heliply rod and Hatch reel in the river (long story . . . Zach can vouch that it was the worst fishing day of my life).
I started tying this style with marabou instead of rabbit and using a two-toned body/head and I put a weed guard ventrally. Again, I am now using them more for bass. On the lake with standard floating line/leader I think they act like a Dahlberg diver, but on sinking lines they are great baitfish imitators, especially yellow/white. That’s why I tie them with big gaped stinger hooks for the type of fishing I use them for.
Do you use them on the rivers up in MI for trout? What type of sinking line setup do you use?
My version of the fly with weed guard
That second articulated fly looks good! I have tried similar Sex Dungeon or circus peanut variants with deer hair and they look fantastic in the vise but in practical application they are (for me at least) stupid heavy when wet. Need an 8-9wt rod and a hard hat. I personally employ a big stinger hook in the back section and as a rule, use a smaller hook in front.A big SD variant with rabbit hair. I don’t use these anymore because they were just too heavy (but they look great as decorations on the tying desk).
Here is my current setup for articulated CP or SD – I use the LONG fibered marabou from the quill packets. This keeps the weight down when wet. For some reason in my local lake they are more effective if I razor trim the head to a thin bullet shape when used with sinking lines (see picture below) but not with standard floating line/leader setup.
Yellow, white, orange, and black are most effective for warm water fishing in my local area. I’ve been told that a yellow Madonna is killer on the tailwater rivers here in Georgia.
Tim – I hope you don’t mind me posting some notes here.
Loren Williams http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/articulatedbugger.html has a great tutorial on tying the general articulated wooly bugger. This is a great place to start learning the articulated style of tying and you can get results very fast (I almost guarantee you will catch a trout the first time and then “you” will be hooked).
Here is another link I have saved http://www.flymasters.com/Class_FlyTying_Int_ArticualtedFlies2007.asp (shows pictures of other things to do with articulation).
The next step is the circus peanut – it’s kinda hard to find a recipe online but look closely at the pattern and it is pretty easy once you understand the basics of articulated flies.
Get some yellow (or white) saltwater reel backing and use that to tie your articulations at first. Wire is great but difficult to learn in practice.
Charlie Craven http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/flybox/index.cfm has a recipe for the SD variant but that would be considered intimidation-level tying (My picture above is that same fly)
Tim,
If, like me, you are obsessive about using the Madonna, then under what circumstances do you change to a different pattern, and to which pattern do you change?
Great flies!
Neil,
Why do you prefer a larger back hook on articulated streamers? I’ve always heard to go two sizes smaller (at least one size smaller) with the back hook. Also, can you comment more about wire vs. backing for the articulation joint? I’ve used both materials and actually prefer backing over wire since I’ve found it to give better movement in the water.That’s a good point and deserves a bit of clarification. For “warm water” fishing with articulated flies I like a bigger hook on the back. Don’t have a reason other than experience with better hookups for bass. Maybe it’s the way they take the fly, which is more of a tap and glide take. On the other hand, I do use a bigger hook in front when tying articulated streamers for trout fishing on moving water. Over the past year I have not had much opportunity to fish from a boat on the river (although I do have a pontoon craft which is so much easier to do the one-man thing on the local lakes and ponds vs the river). So . . . it’s been a warm water game for my articulated streamer fishing.
Kelly Galloup has pointed out that many of the fish that are lost on 4x or 6x long hooks are never hooked in the first place.
I might have to start using a bigger hook in the front. I re-listened to a KG podcast and appartently the bigger gap hook in the front section is better for hooking the fish AND also acts as a rudder which keeps the fly in line during the strip retrieve. I never thought about that and have probably just been lucky to hook up stupid pond bass until this point.
I’ll bet you a dime-to-a-nickle that is why (see my last fly picture above) I have been doing better on sinking lines when I shave my heads to a bullet shape.
Tim,
I have not fished the madonna but have had success on zuddlers, sculpzilla and cougar patterns, all of which have similarities to that pattern. I will sometimes switch away from deer hair head patterns in favor of coneheads or lead eyes when fishing pocket water or back eddies. These flies respond to mending much better, sinking deeper in the water column and letting me fish that type of water more effectively.
Recently I have been doinig really well with a super slow retreive using small weighted buggers or baitfish patterns and lots of mending. This time of year we sometimes see a shad/baitfish kill on the tailwater and, on some days, fish are more apt to take a dead-drifted or twitched fly then one retrieved with a quick jerk-strip (It’s way more fun ripping the big nasties though!).
JL
John,
With regard to not hooking up on your grabs, you should consider going barbless on those big hooks. It may seem counter-intuitive at first, but I bet you will be suprised at the difference it makes.
A good friend of mine who guides in Alaska and on the Lake Erie tribs for steelhead was the one who impressed this upon me. He said when he started smashing the barbs on his big king flies he noticed that more of his hook sets were sinking deeper and therefore keeping the fish pinned longer. It is much easier to sink a barbless hook to the bend than it is a hook with barb still intact. Give it a shot, let us know if you notice a difference!
JL
Tim you mentioned using these in Michigan, I’m vacation on the Ausable this year during the first week of July, should I be throwing streamers?
Eric
I know you were talking to the other Tim, but yes, you need to throw streamers on the Ausable.
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