Reels
- This topic has 21 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Nov 29, 2010 at 11:05 pm by
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Is it accurate to assert that a reel in a given line will have nearly the exact same drag/resistance as a different size in that same line.
I think in your case, the difference will go away with one click of the drag.
The arbor on a reel is somewhat like the main gear on a bicycle. With a standard arbor reel, the more line you loose, the easier it is for a fish to take line because the arbor size has in effect decreased. Its like downshifting on a bicycle, big gears are harder to turn than smaller ones.
A large arbor reel has a more constant size, thus the drag doesn’t change nearly as much.
To me the bigger the arbor, the easier it becomes to gain more line as you wind down. of course this is if you are pumping big fish.
That has always been the Tarpon mindset…
Pump the rod to fight the fish, but gain as much line as possible while you are reeling down. Larger arbors allow you to maximize that.What weight rod are you putting it on?
Andrew –
In some cases, yes that would be accurate generally, but not always.
There’s an article on reel drag in the Articles section here.
Many reels have the exact same drag cores. For instance, Lamson uses the same core across a wide range of reels. That core provides X amount of resistance and that X value would be consistent on different models, with an exception. The exception is the outside diameter of the line coil. Think of the gears on a ten speed bicycle. The larger diameter reel is going to actually provide more resistance in terms of drag pounds than a smaller diameter reel with the same drag core. This also applies as you lose line, actually–drag resistance at the back end of your backing will be considerably weaker than when the reel is full, because the fish has a mechanical advantage pulling against a ‘smaller gear.’
Further, some manufacturers, especially on better reels, greatly increase the surface area of their drag mechanisms for larger sized reels. I know Abel, Tibor and Nautilus do this. Generally speaking your draw-bar style reels or those using updated copies of that “donut drag” design are going to be able to (a) provide stronger drag settings and (b) take advantage of larger overall reel size to add more drag area, when compared to a gear drag reel such as most of the Sage reels or a lot of the lower end Orvis reels.
There’s a lot more detail in the article. The differences may not be terribly noticeable, but technically, I think your hypothesis would be incorrect.
Zach
I have been on the fence about a Colton torrent for my 10wt and will probably get one before this spring. Right now they have sweet deals on the 8-10 in black on ebay, but I feel like a 11-13 would be better suited for an 11wt intermediate and 300+ yards. 18lbs of drag is tough to beat!
Good answers, though I respectively disagree with Adam about the effect on drag as more line goes out. I would submit that it increases the drag as the effective radius decreases. Add to that the increased drag of more line in the water and you can see why it increases the chance of the fish breaking off. But if she is about to spool you anyway it may not be all bad. I will be in the market myself for a 12 wt. tarpon setup before spring. I’m thinking about jumping up to the Tibor Pacific with spool two which is larger arbor. Any experience or advice out there?
Big wheels take more energy to turn than small wheels. Think about it.
From my experience, when i have lost fish that had gained a lot of line on me, it was typically because I did not have control of the fish to begin with.
Andy Mill used to talk about how the pacific was a better tarpon reel for the reason that you described.
I’m not sure about the line capacity or arbor comments, but Zach is right about the reel design….the Pacific is not the best Tarpon reel around just because you get more line pick up….it also has a much larger drag surface than a Gulfstream or probably just about any other reel.
The effect of line drag in the water is definitely a significant factor on the stress put on your tippet, provided of course that the fish is moving sideways.
Oh yeah….and I wasn’t saying the line in the does not matter….I was just saying that for this question…I don’t think that was part of it….But that line will get to a point where it will stretch a lot….like Adam said….but the line in the water does matter if you are taking all of that into account….without a doubt….
I definitely prefer large arbor reels even though you give up some line capacity for 3 main reasons: 1) you can retrieve line faster the bigger the diameter 2) the line doesn’t develop as tight of kinks 3) the drag stays more consistent as line is taken out.
I plan on living forever, so far so good.
Drags are fun too consider (especially for a Civil Engineer). They are neat little mechanisms that employ principals that we know, but not so complicated that we feel intimiated by our Mechanical Engineer friends.
Lots of factors go into the determining a certain drag’s characteristics. Larger spool diameters create more moment (think leverage) at a given line tension. In other words, they are mechanically weaken the drag by giving more Mechanical Advantage to the fish.
On the other hand, large diameters also allow the spool to spin slower and allow for maybe slightly smoother operation. This may (or may not) translate to more drag force depending on frictional characteristics of the drag materials. Some materials maintain their frictional forces more than others once the spool is spinning.
Cortland/STH had a really cool idea with their turbine drag. That was real out of the box thinking with some really neat advantages. Low startup interia, with automatically increasing drag resistance under higher spool speeds. A little weak on the top end, but what about a hybrid system with just a little disc assist? Unfortunately they couldn’t put it in a package that people wanted to buy.
At the end of the day, there is a lot of engineering but also a lot of art in the highly designed equipment. Designs with advantages in one area often sacrifice in another. There are so many really great designs out there. It is so fun to look at the ways different people at different companies go about it.
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