Tippet Breaking Strength
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Yesterday, I had a fish break me off on the hook set. This led me to do some investigating to see if my tippet was bad. My question is, does anyone know how the “industry” measures tippet breaking strengths that are printed on the spool?
EX. Yesterday, I the tippet that broke was 5X Flouro, which says it has a breaking strength of 4.4 lbs. I took my fish scale, about a 16 or 17″ section of the tippet, and tied no slip loops in each end. Then put one loop on the end of a nail in the garage cabinet, the fish scale through the loop in the other end, and began pulling slowly and as steadily as possible so I could measure at what strength it broke. The 5X flouro broke at 3 lbs. Quite a bit less than the stated 4.4 lb breaking strength. The spool says it is best used by 2012.
Tried the test again, this time using 6X flouro I had just bought a couple of months ago. It’s stated breaking strength is 3.3 lbs. It broke at 2 lbs. Again, quite a bit under its stated breaking strength, but pretty consistent in the amount it was short.
Anyone know the answer?
*Post edited to remove name of tippet company*
Look up knot wars and watch the videos of the knot testing they do. The reason I say this is because the knots youare tyingmay be hindering your tippet strength.
Try the same test with other knots. Also try this, tie a piece ofheavier mono or braid to the scale then tie the tippet to that and then tie another piece of mono to the other end and pull on your nail.I use the double (or triple sometimes) surgeon knot for tippet connections, and the non slip knot for my flies http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/nonslip.html which is supposed to be 100%. I have had no problems in the past with these knots.
I didn’t see a review for the non slip knot on knot wars, and from what little I read about the surgeons knot, they said it is supposed to be one of the strongest knots out there for joining tippet.
I’ll run another round of tests, but I am pretty particular about my knots, so I don’t think the problem lies there, but we’ll see.
I am wondering if it is based on a certain length of tippet material…. a shorter piece will not stretch as much as a longer piece.
Where did the material break – at the knot or in the section of tippet?
Knots are critical in the fine stuff. If a knot in material that light loses 10 or 15% you’re in trouble.
Morsie
There’s no “industry standard” for declared breaking strains.
I remember having a conversation with Dennis Black, the founder of Umpqua Feather Merchants, about this many years ago. He claimed, and he never BS’d me about anything else I’m aware of, that some will test the breaking strain, let’s say, 10 times. The highest figure it breaks at becomes their stated breaking strain. Some will use the lowest and some will use the average.
Dennis said they always used the lowest and he believes it is why, for many many years, they had the lion’s share of the tippet material market.
No doubt others will share some views on that.
These days i primarily use Rio and when not available I still use Umpqua. I love the feel of frog hair and like the way it knots, but it doesn’t seem very strong to me compared to my favored materials.
You can judge a man by the size of things which annoy him.
The other day on the river, it appeared to have broken at the surgeon’s knot, as I lost everything clean including the 5X. When I was doing the crude tests yesterday at home, I could not seem to find the end that broke, so it may very well (appears to) have broken at the knot. Last night I was able to get the 5X to break at 3.5 lbs using an improved clinch knot on both ends with about an 19″ peice, so that was closer.
This evening, I plan to test two more rigs, which I think will be better at isolating the part that breaks:
1) Do as Keith B. suggested and put 4X on each end of a piece of 5X using triple surgeons and see if the 5x breaks or either of the triple surgeons knots break
2) Attach 5x to a fly using the non slip knot, and then triple surgeons to attach 4X to the 5X. Hang fly on nail and attach 4x to scale. Should break at either the non slip knot, 5x tippet, or triple surgeons.
Another possibility is that the scale is not exact, but I think it should be close. It is a Berkley digital fish scale.
Went home during lunch and did test #1 above. Used a 7″ peice of 4X tippet at each end of a 20″ piece of 5X tippet. Attached 5X to each peice of 4X with triple surgeons knot. Used improved clinch knot to tie each end of 4X tippet to the nail and scale respectively. All tippet was fluoro.
The result was that the 5X tippet itself broke above the triple surgeons knot leaving the knot intact, and the scale said 2.8 lbs when it broke!
I was suprised by these results, but it tends to confirm my onstream experience the other day. Maybe I got a bad spool of tippet?
*Post edited to remove name of tippet company*
Like Clark said, there is not a standard way of measuring tippet strength. However, most companies do the same thing you did (minus the knots) – elongate the tippet and measure the break strength. To make a tippet seem strong, slow down the way you pull it (for more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse).
If you apply a force to the tippet at a mind numbingly slow rate, you can make your tippet appear much stronger than it is. Lots of companies do this.
Tippets and leaders are a funny business. Most of the monofilament comes out of about 5 plants in Japan. There is only about 2 fluoro plants. So what I am saying, most tippets are the same – even if they appear different in terms of break strength. It’s how the company chooses to collect the data that differs.
Thanks for the link Tim.
Just to clarify on the tests above – I was pulling the tippet at a very slow rate, as you suggested, to try and give it the best chance at reaching a higher breaking strength, but also to be able to watch each increment register on the digital scale.
I use the double (or triple sometimes) surgeon knot for tippet connections, and the non slip knot for my flies http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/nonslip.html which is supposed to be 100%. I have had no problems in the past with these knots.
I took a look at the link you provided and step 1 is incorrect, the tag is fed back through from the incorrect side (though it is shown correctly in step 2).
Wow Gael, good eye. I never noticed the error in the diagram for Step 1. Luckily, I have always tied it according to the written instructions and the diagram for Step 2.
**PS** Did test #2 as described above. The section of 5X tippet itself again broke just above the triple surgeons knot joining it to the 4X tippet on the scale leaving the knot intact. The non slip knot connecting the 5X to the fly also was left unharmed. It broke at 3.2 lbs, which seems to be the average breaking strength of this tippet from all of the tests I did.
I am really surprised to find it consistently breaking over a pound less than the stated strength on the spool.
Knots kill tippet. No matter if you lubricate them with saliva (which does double the knot strength – I tested it for a *TIPPET COMPANY*).
When I conducted a bunch of tests for the said company, I would clinch the tippet into a pair of jaws. Then wrap it around a 1″ in diameter pin and then do the same on the other end. This way you have no sharp edges and no knots. I imagine this is how other companies do it too. The tippet always breaks in the center this way.
You’d be amazed at how far you can stretch tippet, which I am sure you saw. 50% elongation is the norm.
That makes since Tim….thanks for sharing how the company you worked for tested tippets.
I could see how the breaking strength could be higher with no knots introduced into the equation. Still, it seems to me that you would want to test it with knots to get a “true” feild equivalent to put on the spool, since we all have to use knots to fish. I guess there are just too many variables to control when you intorduce a knot.
I do lubricate the knot with saliva before setting it.
I read somewhere, and I can’t remember if it was IA or another forum, that you don’t have to worry about flouro breaking down like regular mono due to exposure in sunlight or a hot car…is this correct? I store my gear indoors, and when I fish, it is on me, so not much time for it to be sitting in a hot car etc. but can’t remember how long ago I bought this 5X spool, even though it says it’s good until 2012.
This has been an enlightening little experiment 😀
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