Raping the Spawn?
- This topic has 39 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Dec 6, 2006 at 12:44 am by
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I saw in the Thanksgiving post by Travis that someone must have mentioned something about raping spawning fish? I would like to see a discussion on the topic.
I personally leave them alone if they are on a redd, but will target staging fish below the active spawners. I think a bigger concern and problem than bothering spawning fish is people destroying fertile redds by walking all over them.
Guessing that few of us would disagree with you, Steve. But as a relative beginner, I have never fished during a spawn. And if I did, I would not know what to look for when around redds. In theory, yes, they have been described, and I’ve seen a picture. But never in real life. Are they easy to spot? Are spawning fish easy to avoid? I’ll wager that most fly anglers who disturb a redd do so out of ignorance. Perhaps I am being naive, has anyone experienced otherwise?
Spawning area’s is some places are quite easy to see. The fish will usually fan an area with its tail to clean the gravel for the eggs to nest in. Those redds appear as bright spots on the river (or lake) bottom. These are easily seen in the shallows of lakes and ponds in the spring when ‘gills are mating. In the rivers they can be spotted too. When I lived in Michigan during the salmon run you could see the redd and fish behind it for the steelhead and browns who were waiting for dinner to be served.
The problem with wading is, even though you might avoid tromping on the redd itself, a large quantity of those eggs roll downstream and are easily crushed by the wading angler.
Personally, I would like to see sections of prime spawning area’s closed during the spawn. Many fight this idea because this is their best chance to catch a hawg but it makes for better fishing in the long run IMHO.Thank you Carter you saved me alot of typing strokes. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I’m a firm believer that the regulations set by a group of DEGREED fishery Biologist’s are enough to protect these fish. The river I mainly fish is 70 miles of cold water with big Browns along every inch of it. And on top of that the DNR dumps thousands more in every year. I pay good money for this and I plan to enjoy it every opportunity I get. And yes, I fish for the big Browns all year, and I catch them in the warmer months too. Just not as many or as easily.
However I do see how it would be disgusting to walk up to your river and see 40 anglers standing in the Redds.Ohhhh and BTW the this fall just as the Browns were dropping their eggs the Corp decided to run the river full bore for about a month straight now. I don’t think those millions of eggs made it…. Maybe people should start preaching to the ones who are really hurting the fishery…
BTW, if anyone here feels strongly enough about this topic to write a Rant column advocating one position or another, I’m sure this is a topic that could make American Angler magazine.
The issue of “spawn raping” was raised by a guide on the river who was frustrated by the actions of so many seasonal anglers who abuse his home waters….I understand his sentiments.
Hey Phil –
I’d probably advocate closing Cow Shoals during the spawn altogether (it is closed at night), because it is one of the scenes of the most spawn pillaging I’ve ever witnessed.
and (2) Brown Trout are not native to the United States….I’m very glad to have them, and I’ll work to improve their environments and encourage catch and release, but ultimately if every last one of them were thrown onto the bank, genetically we’d just be back where we started.
Zach:
Respectfully, I think your opinion ignores two things:
1) We have “forever” altered the environment below the dams to a cold water one. Native fish simply will not thrive in it any longer unless you knock down a lot of concrete. That’s why we have a legally (not just socially) mitigated trout fishery. The protection of our trout fisheries is a legal responsibility.
2) Trout in general and browns in particular have an intrinsic value to many anglers. As a sport fish for instance, like Lee Wulff has said. However, I personally don’t catch and release because it is a managment philosophy. I catch and release because it is a philosophy of appreciation. I love trout. They try to live and reproduce and survive like any other species and are a wonderful species to fish for.
Therefore, since they are here to stay in the long foreseeable future, have “legal status as citizens” ::), have proved they can survive and grow as large as in their native ranges (perhaps larger), and have value as a sport fish, it only makes the most sense to protect them, their habitat and give them the ability to naturally reproduce and sustain themselves as smallmouth once did.
I tire of the argument that since they are not native, we can fish ’em out and it wouldn’t make any difference in the long run.
Thinking about the can o’worms I’ve opened.
Very true Carter. Good point. And I think I probably have misread Zach’s comments as I know he is not supporting abandoning the brown trout fisheries we have. Sorry Zach if I implied that.
Trying to get at the underlying philosophy of why we think importing a species called salmo trutta into a non-native area was and is a good thing. Should we do it in areas inhabited by threatened native trout like Yellowstone? Probably not. Should we do it if trout can coexist with a native northern hog sucker and chilled out smallmouth. By all means :). And if you do, then protect them. Let them be fruitful and multiply.
Much of out attitudes are very culturally oriented. I have friends in England that just cannot understand why we have an open fishing season during the trout spawns. The are so engrained with Walton ethics that it is incomprehensible to them that we even want to fish to trout during the spawn.
The local attitude here that says trout are not native to Arkansas waters, and therefore they should be treated merely as a meat market opportunity, needs to be better informed.
Sincerely and respectfully,
ScottI don’t by any means consider myself to be an avid trout fisherman, I’m simply not, but that is something that has always intrigued me, the differences in how it seems to work over here vs. Europe.
Just another thought…you know if you look at the “evolutionary” development of trout in our own north American drainages, all kinds of fish species as well as trout species have turned up in new drainages where they did not exist before.
I was just recently reading something on how before the last period of glaciation in North Dakota, all the rivers there ran northeast into the Hudson Bay drainage. After the glaciers left, the rivers ran into the newly cutt and present day Missouri River drainage. I am sure that messed with some fish species. Furthermore, a lot of the cutthroats in the western US drainages periodically wound up in some surprising places, like California, because of upheaval events.
Well, who is to say dams and manmade structures are not part of the evolution of our waters and fish species. Because trout want to survive, who knows what changes they may develop to adapt to dam breaks and catastrophes over the years? Who knows what adaptations yellowstone cutts may evolve because they are threatened?
Of course, these arguments work both ways, so it comes down to value judgments by anglers on what they want and what G&F can deliver. But once we’ve got it, let’s make it work as naturally as possible. Trout are trout, and they seek to survive, thrive and reproduce. Let’s let ’em.
Thanks for the recommendation. I don’t have any Prosek books, but I have his Trout of North America poster on my office wall. He’s truely gifted.
Well from you last post talking about the new species being found in drainages and what-not I REALLY think you should pick up a copy of that book.
“Trout are trout, and they seek to survive, thrive and reproduce. Let’s let ’em.
What about Bream, Crappie, Bass, Pike, Salmon, Musky, Catfish, Carp, Striper, Gar, etc, etc, etc, etc. Why do we only want protect the Spawning Trout whose population gets a HUGE boost from the stocking trucks vs other fish who have somehow survived ON THEIR OWN despite mankind’s brutal desire for spawn raping for centuries.
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