Davy knot
- This topic has 20 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated Dec 19, 2005 at 2:14 pm by
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Well I was reading another one of John Wilson’s post and he revealed his knot of choice for fly to tippet. I had seen him tie this when they filmed him on FFA but after much searching I never could figure it out.
I played with it tonight and I think I may never tie another Clinch, ever! I hate the clinch for tying Fluro and I always have. It was never one of my fav knots especially with 6 and 7X tippet. The Davy is the easiest knot I have ever tied.
This may be old hat to some of you but it’s new to me and I am just amazed at how such a simple and small knot can hold so good.Now, I that I got that off my chest here’s the link.
http://utahoutdoors.com/pages/Davyknot.htmI also tried another super, super, easy knot for leader to fly line. It came from another website and is referred to over there as the Castwell, or Lap knot. I won’t post a link however for fear of being banned from IA. Google it. It really is a dandy knot and again so simple it’s stupid.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/
You might have to navigate to find the knot. look for fly fishing basics then knots. The Castwell knot.Yes, the Davy knot was invented by Mr Wotton. Another fisherman that I would like to spend some time with some day. And hopefully Dave Whitlock too.
Wilson, Whitlock, Woton. That would be a trip wouldn’t it. I think they all live in Mt Home don’t they?The thing I like about the castewell vs the blood is the Castwell will never cut into the line and slip off. I have had blood knots cut the flyline and pull off, leaving a braided piece of thread. The Castwell won’t ever do that. I think it would snag less then loop to loop plus, with a loop to loop there are three possible points of failure. I haven’t fished it yet but will test it and post the results.
Mike
Mike-
Those 20+ pound stripers you catch I can see doing that, and maybe even some of the biggest browns you are pulling in, but for the most part if the knot is coming off the end of the line something else is at play. Maybe your silicone treatment is getting under the binding and preventing a good locking knot?
For stripers, I’d just use 50# braided loop to loops. Have you found Dan Blanton’s board yet?
Zach
Zach, they don’t pull off, they cut the coating. If you tie a nail knot (I said blood earlier but I meant nail) on a fly line and pull on it till something breaks usually you will find the nail knot will cut into the coating on the fly line until it separates leaving nothing but the core. The more you pull on a nail knot the tighter it gets till it cuts the coating on the line, then there is nothing to hold it. I have done this on brand new line. It wouldn’t be a problem on most outfits, but if I was after big game, I wouldn’t use a nail to connect anything to fly line.
I did find Dan’s board I wish I could get interested in Striper again, maybe soon. I thought about them a few times today in a reply to BD about Loons on the lake.
Hmm. Maybe I’m just in an ornery mood this morning.
I have watched that animation for the Castwell knot a dozen times, and for the life of me, I can’t figure out what would prevent the risk of the tag end from slipping back through the loop and unraveling the entire knot. I will have to do more investigation on that when I have some free time and some string.
As far as the Davy Knot, I would really, really like to see a tension test on it. I may be reading the diagram wrong, but I think if you take the fly out of the loop, isn’t it just a double overhand knot?
For that matter, I guess a clinch knot is essentially an overhand knot too, though the multiple wraps are intended to keep the opposing parts of the knot from cinching down against one another. (The danger of the overhand knot is that as it cinches down, it places two pieces of line in opposition in a way that creates somewhat of an edge that can cut into the line).
I don’t have time or string to experiment right now, but I’m not sure what I think of these knots. But like I said, maybe I’m just being obstreperous.
bd
BD-
Your obstreperiety may be related to your ostentatious talents in mid-air knot tying. 🙂
I have been playing around with adding a couple wraps to the final tag wrap and it seems to greatly strengthen the knot, especially on a bigger hook, without increasing the size of the knot. The apparent smallness of this knot is related to the fact that instead of binding around the leading line, it binds around the top of the eye of the hook, making a neat little bundle.
I don’t think it is a double overhand knot, because the final tag wrap goes *back the other way.* I actually think it is closest to a Duncan’s Loop, only instead of wrapping back UP the overhand knot they both start with, it wraps down toward the eye. You can’t slip knot it this way like the Duncan’s Loop, but since the knot seats over the final locking wrap, it doesn’t need as much bulk. However, adding two more final wraps like a Duncan’s loop does seem to add strength.
Christ, I am going to need a video to describe this and I’m not making one!
🙂
Zach
PS This is definitely at its heart a modified Duncan’s Loop – a good knot!
Hey Guys,
I’ve been lurking for a little while after clicking on one of Zach’s links on the FlyFisherman board.
As far as the Davy knot goes, I believe it is exactly the same knot as is illustrated in the Midge Magic book. That’s where I first saw it and started using it.
BD-
Your obstreperiety may be related to your ostentatious talents in mid-air knot tying. 🙂
I have been playing around with adding a couple wraps to the final tag wrap and it seems to greatly strengthen the knot, especially on a bigger hook, without increasing the size of the knot.
1.
The website stated that the knot has 100% knot strength.
My point really is that Fluro and clinch knots don’t mix well and the recommended fluro knot, the trilene knot, is hard to do when you crowd the eye like I tend to do. Factor in a size 20 hook and you really have a problem. Then there is the problem with the 1 or 2″ of squiggly leader you get sometimes from tying the clinch.I will get the boca out soon and put this to rest.
If John endorses it, I trust his judgment.
Mike
The website stated that the knot has 100% knot strength.
My point really is that Fluro and clinch knots don’t mix well and the recommended fluro knot, the trilene knot, is hard to do when you crowd the eye like I tend to do. Factor in a size 20 hook and you really have a problem. Then there is the problem with the 1 or 2″ of squiggly leader you get sometimes from tying the clinch.I have also seen sites claiming the improved clinch has near 100% strength, which is clearly hogwash (70% is probably more realistic when the knot is tied properly).
My thanks to Mike for this post. I practiced the Davey knot and used it exclusively yesterday and it was perfect with Orvis Mirage 3 and 4X. Not a single fish lost to a failed tippet to fly knot. (several lost to one or the other of 123 million things that can go wrong) It is the best fluorocarbon knot I have used yet. Simple to do(even with numb fingers) it is small and really does seem to be near 100%. Perfect.
Steve
My thanks to Mike for this post. I practiced the Davey knot and used it exclusively yesterday and it was perfect with Orvis Mirage 3 and 4X. Not a single fish lost to a failed tippet to fly knot. (several lost to one or the other of 123 million things that can go wrong) It is the best fluorocarbon knot I have used yet. Simple to do(even with numb fingers) it is small and really does seem to be near 100%. Perfect.
Steve
Glad you liked it Steve. I’ll try to post these things as I find them.
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